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	<title>Comments on: Catch the Fire Ministries v Islamic Council of Victoria Inc: Free speech wins - just</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-12458</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-12458</guid>
		<description>Love that anecdote, Adrien.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love that anecdote, Adrien.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-12455</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 03:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-12455</guid>
		<description>How the hell did this morph into abortion?

Anyway: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;incite hatred against, serious contempt for or revulsion or severe ridicule of [insert whoever/whatever here] on the ground of religious belief under the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001, specifically ss. 8, 9 and 11?&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

This is entirely ludicrous. Would Bill Hicks be banned for this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks liked He rushed it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or perhaps his comments viz Catholicism being one of the most ludicrous beliefs ever? 

Part of the way this country deals with difference and potential conflicts is to enter into them playfully. Here's a joke:

Friend of mine from Jamaica came to live in Australia had a little trouble figuring out the local ways. This guy is very proud and brooks no shit from anyone.

Anyway. One day I met him at the pub for a drink and he'd been there a while. When I got there he had a big smile on his face. "I t'ink I finally figured the Australian sense o' humour mon", says he.

"Oh yeah. Howzat?"

"I com in here before this guy says to me: 'What you doing here you black bastard?'"

"Shit you didn't hit him or anything"

"No mon I remember you say these t'ings are often not serious, so I say to him: I have a date with your wife"

"He didn't hit you?"

"No he says: I should buy you a beer that woman's always late."

Somewhat utopian perhaps. But there's a point. A free expression of certain inevitable inter-ethnic discomforts acts like a pressure valve. I can't count how many times I've had some stupid British git correct my use of the word 'wog' to 'Meditereanean please Adrien' as if using some kind of correct terminology will make everyone love each other.

Firstly the word wog &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; pejorative once but as the wogs simply co-opted it it became just another word. It's the connotation of words rather than the meaning of them in which you'll find the 'slur'. Secondly having spent a good part of my formative years in the Mediterreanean I can say I am a wog. And third: how many race riots have they had in the UK? 

This kind of legislation removes all humour and understanding from inter-ethnic communication. We'll have to replace &lt;i&gt;Fat Pizza&lt;/i&gt; with some noddy-land Kumbayah multiculturalism featuring a bunch of 'ethnic' groups who behave and think like no-one on Earth. Meantime, whilst the open expression of legitimate culture criticisms is surpressed, the jackboots get polished underground. 

It'd just be so great if parliamentarians had to do a compulsory course called: Most of the time the solution to stupid society IS NOT for you to write another law Stupid. 

You think they might've noticed that sometimes people from traditional (theocratic) backgrounds have a little difficulty adjusting to liberal society. Changing the laws to resemble a Sharia state or whatever isn't going to help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How the hell did this morph into abortion?</p>
<p>Anyway: </p>
<blockquote><p>incite hatred against, serious contempt for or revulsion or severe ridicule of [insert whoever/whatever here] on the ground of religious belief under the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001, specifically ss. 8, 9 and 11?</p></blockquote>
<p>This is entirely ludicrous. Would Bill Hicks be banned for this:</p>
<blockquote><p>You ever noticed how people who believe in Creationism look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. &#8220;I believe God created me in one day&#8221; Yeah, looks liked He rushed it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or perhaps his comments viz Catholicism being one of the most ludicrous beliefs ever? </p>
<p>Part of the way this country deals with difference and potential conflicts is to enter into them playfully. Here&#8217;s a joke:</p>
<p>Friend of mine from Jamaica came to live in Australia had a little trouble figuring out the local ways. This guy is very proud and brooks no shit from anyone.</p>
<p>Anyway. One day I met him at the pub for a drink and he&#8217;d been there a while. When I got there he had a big smile on his face. &#8220;I t&#8217;ink I finally figured the Australian sense o&#8217; humour mon&#8221;, says he.</p>
<p>&#8220;Oh yeah. Howzat?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I com in here before this guy says to me: &#8216;What you doing here you black bastard?&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Shit you didn&#8217;t hit him or anything&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No mon I remember you say these t&#8217;ings are often not serious, so I say to him: I have a date with your wife&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;He didn&#8217;t hit you?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No he says: I should buy you a beer that woman&#8217;s always late.&#8221;</p>
<p>Somewhat utopian perhaps. But there&#8217;s a point. A free expression of certain inevitable inter-ethnic discomforts acts like a pressure valve. I can&#8217;t count how many times I&#8217;ve had some stupid British git correct my use of the word &#8216;wog&#8217; to &#8216;Meditereanean please Adrien&#8217; as if using some kind of correct terminology will make everyone love each other.</p>
<p>Firstly the word wog <i>was</i> pejorative once but as the wogs simply co-opted it it became just another word. It&#8217;s the connotation of words rather than the meaning of them in which you&#8217;ll find the &#8217;slur&#8217;. Secondly having spent a good part of my formative years in the Mediterreanean I can say I am a wog. And third: how many race riots have they had in the UK? </p>
<p>This kind of legislation removes all humour and understanding from inter-ethnic communication. We&#8217;ll have to replace <i>Fat Pizza</i> with some noddy-land Kumbayah multiculturalism featuring a bunch of &#8216;ethnic&#8217; groups who behave and think like no-one on Earth. Meantime, whilst the open expression of legitimate culture criticisms is surpressed, the jackboots get polished underground. </p>
<p>It&#8217;d just be so great if parliamentarians had to do a compulsory course called: Most of the time the solution to stupid society IS NOT for you to write another law Stupid. </p>
<p>You think they might&#8217;ve noticed that sometimes people from traditional (theocratic) backgrounds have a little difficulty adjusting to liberal society. Changing the laws to resemble a Sharia state or whatever isn&#8217;t going to help.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-12444</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-12444</guid>
		<description>As far as I'm aware, the matter was remitted to the tribunal and the Islamic Council of Victoria chose not to proceed further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;m aware, the matter was remitted to the tribunal and the Islamic Council of Victoria chose not to proceed further.</p>
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		<title>By: davidp</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-12443</link>
		<dc:creator>davidp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-12443</guid>
		<description>Good writeup. Thanks.

Has the re-hearing happened, and if so, what was its outcome ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good writeup. Thanks.</p>
<p>Has the re-hearing happened, and if so, what was its outcome ?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2660</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2660</guid>
		<description>graeme - check yr email</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>graeme - check yr email</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GMB</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2659</link>
		<dc:creator>GMB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2659</guid>
		<description>If Fyodors not here it  won't go to thread of doom level.

I think I can make my basic methodology prevail. And it allows a spectrum of outcomes. With either a very long window of opportunity or a very short one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Fyodors not here it  won&#8217;t go to thread of doom level.</p>
<p>I think I can make my basic methodology prevail. And it allows a spectrum of outcomes. With either a very long window of opportunity or a very short one.</p>
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		<title>By: Bring Back CL's Blog</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2658</link>
		<dc:creator>Bring Back CL's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2658</guid>
		<description>SL, who cares if it is off-topic. Don't become like LP!

Whyisitso, strong views on abortion has a few johnnycomelatelys on it!!

Jason ,
are you introducing a pregnant pause</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SL, who cares if it is off-topic. Don&#8217;t become like LP!</p>
<p>Whyisitso, strong views on abortion has a few johnnycomelatelys on it!!</p>
<p>Jason ,<br />
are you introducing a pregnant pause</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2657</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2657</guid>
		<description>Warning, Jason - another Thread of Doom will be in the offing.

But not before Xmas, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warning, Jason - another Thread of Doom will be in the offing.</p>
<p>But not before Xmas, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2656</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2656</guid>
		<description>I think I will open an abortion thread but I'll wait till after X'mas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I will open an abortion thread but I&#8217;ll wait till after X&#8217;mas.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2006/12/catch-the-fire-ministries-v-islamic-council-of-victoria-inc-free-speech-wins-just/comment-page-4/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2226#comment-2655</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much everyone, and yes rog, I agree with you.

You should all give yourselves a pat on the back :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much everyone, and yes rog, I agree with you.</p>
<p>You should all give yourselves a pat on the back <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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