What was the point of the link?

And what was the point of the lie?

And lets see you retract that lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is left-wingers for you. They lie all the time. And they are idiots.

Go over to Elders site and he is even pretending to be a reformed libertarian.

To think that he would even lie about THAT.

No Elder. You are lying. And you are an idiot. No retract this lie.

Pinochets about the best we could hope for.

I love the we.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=13090&R=EF219D0F

…That he could do so at first rightly in order to save his country from communism…..

….That he could unleash this sort of thing in such a way as to make LIBERTARIANISM obsolete….

…That he could do so in such a way as to make governmental violence and dictatorial rule… SURGICAL and not still the giant bulldozer that it will always be.

To win this war and stop any inroads from the communists until the Cold War had ended there was always going to be some killing.

To have run a government that only killed people who needed killing would have been beyond the abilities of anyone in history most likely.

How many aborigines died in custody during the 80’s?

And to what extent can we sheet this off to the Prime ministers that were in charge then?

Was it 100?

Well already thats one quarter of Pinochets total over 17 years.

You show up at a caucus meeting and at Press conferences, you speak in Parliament………

But how much power do you have really?

You get guys who have to be harsh on militants… But how do you stop that from corrupting the system itself and leading them to being harsh on people who its not really necessary for them to be harsh to?

Allende started something here. With anti-constitutionalism. Rampant anti-legal behaviour. Fascist militias, farm and business stealing…. and worst of all as far as generating violence is concerned…..HYPER-INFLATION.

And the communists start this civil war which undoubtedly would have led to hundreds of thousands of deaths had they won or not been defeated quickly.

And they had already ruined that country to a grave degree.

Does anyone really think that a saviour is going to drop from the sky and fix that scenario without unleashing his own dirty business?

Particularly not with such an active Soviet/Cuban/Marxist presence in South America.

Pinochets about the best we could hope for.

Barnes. Do you think you could have done better?

If you think you could have done better I suggest you misunderstand the bulldozer nature of government.

We see that when the marxists are defeated it does not take much to end the dictatorships.

Therefore even the 400 deaths and the late-term-tortures are more THEIR fault then anyone elses.

And now since you’ve misrepresented what I said about it I’ll have to repeat:

“27 million is minimal legal and sanctuary money for a dictator. And it just shows his restraint in this matter.”

You got that?

Its not what you said I said is it Barnes!

If you are a dictator who intends to bring his country back to democracy you are obviously going to need legal and or sanctuary money as back-up.

Its more then clear that he showed retraint in this matter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We need a better picture of it because so far the alleged torturing doesn’t really ring true.

They are saying there was so many people tortured. Yet only 401 killed. We would want to know what sparked the arrests. And who was arrested and why.

We would want some sort of understanding of the attempts of the communists to unravel things there.

Because in the wiki they are talking about a few incidents where some thousands were arrested in a single hit.

Which seems all pretty strange.

The normal thing for a dictator of that period when he has some sort of trouble. He just goes and murders maybe 40 000 people.

Like the King of Jordans dad on Black September.

So this report as told by the wiki seems very strange.

Thousands arrested, allegedly tortured. But only 400 killed in 17 years.

Like no other dictatorship on earth when you think about it.

How hateful people are to compare him to Castro or any of the other socialists.

And there is Keating sitting at the feet of the REAL butcher Suharto. Calling him ‘uncle’ and he the democratically elected leader of this Continent.

And later there he is objecting to us intervening in East Timor. When thousands were bing cut to pieces by militia over one or two days.

400 dead in 17 years shows something else going on and not anything like the normal socialist dictator was into.

But I don’t expect anyone who gets hung up on 27 million dollars to really have a well enough developed ethical sense to see that.

You’re not debating the amount. All you’re doing is suggesting he was justified in stealing whatever he did steal, on the basis that he’s a dictator and that’s what dictators do.

Your defense of Pinochet boils down to the fact that he stole, tortured, and murdered less than some other dictators. For this “marvellous work”, apparently, you think he deserves to be “drinking champagne with 70 virgins in heaven as we speak.”

Frankly, this is as weak a stretch as it gets.
Judging by your remarks about whether I’m “embarrased” to be saying the same thing about Pinochet as some leftwingers, it seems like you’re more worried about your image than anything else. You’d rather bend over backwards to polish up a turd like Pinochet than be seen agreeing with left-wingers, even when they’re right about something for once. You seem to think it’s all about who you’re seen with, as opposed to who’s right and wrong. Mate - aren’t you a bit old to be worried about being one of the Kool Kids?

But we don’t use the Wiki for controversial matters. Only for technical matters. And the Wiki didn’t give an English translation of the report.

But it doesn’t look real good. It looks like once that practise of torture starts it becomes habitual.

You appeared to be emphasising this $27 million embezzlement business.

The minimum amount for a dictator I would have thought.

You are going to be going around in circles unless you can come up with some more evidence.

You’re saying the Valech report is entirely false?