Comments on: The Chronicles of Hilalia http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/ Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff. Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:41:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Bring Back CL's Blog http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3914 Bring Back CL's Blog Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:31:09 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3914 we should see the back of burqa!! we should see the back of burqa!!

]]> By: skepticlawyer http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3913 skepticlawyer Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:21:32 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3913 It seems okay now, rog. CL's linked to the story as well. It seems okay now, rog. CL’s linked to the story as well.

]]> By: rog http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3912 rog Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:26:55 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3912 Something odd about the French hijab ban thread so I will link here; the burqini has copped a bit of bad press lately which I dont think is merited - http://www.uem.es/web/arq/profesores/invitados/Burka.jpg Something odd about the French hijab ban thread so I will link here; the burqini has copped a bit of bad press lately which I dont think is merited -

http://www.uem.es/web/arq/profesores/invitados/Burka.jpg

]]> By: skepticlawyer http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3911 skepticlawyer Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:33:57 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3911 Funny how two things can be both conflicting and correct, isn't it? I'm sure it happens a lot more than a lot of people are prepared to admit, too. Funny how two things can be both conflicting and correct, isn’t it? I’m sure it happens a lot more than a lot of people are prepared to admit, too.

]]> By: Graham Bell http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3910 Graham Bell Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:32:06 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3910 CL [18] and SL [19]: You're both right. CL [18] and SL [19]:
You’re both right.

]]> By: skepticlawyer http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3909 skepticlawyer Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:43:00 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3909 That goes to quality, CL. The best satire (and funnily enough, the best propaganda) riffs on the enemy's/target's strengths. Satire that belittles is seldom particularly effective. That's one of the reasons a lot of Nazi propaganda was so effective - it attributed great (negative) strengths to Jews, and therefore attached economic utility to killing them. That goes to quality, CL. The best satire (and funnily enough, the best propaganda) riffs on the enemy’s/target’s strengths. Satire that belittles is seldom particularly effective. That’s one of the reasons a lot of Nazi propaganda was so effective - it attributed great (negative) strengths to Jews, and therefore attached economic utility to killing them.

]]> By: C.L. http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3908 C.L. Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:38:27 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3908 There might also be a law of diminishing marginal utility for some satire. In other words, a point where the units of disempowering iconoclasm you desire - to put an enemy in his place - suddenly fall below the empowering effect on that enemy of trivialising his actual menace. No, Jap pilots weren't all half-blind, buck-toothed ignoramuses in flying toasters etc. There might also be a law of diminishing marginal utility for some satire. In other words, a point where the units of disempowering iconoclasm you desire - to put an enemy in his place - suddenly fall below the empowering effect on that enemy of trivialising his actual menace. No, Jap pilots weren’t all half-blind, buck-toothed ignoramuses in flying toasters etc.

]]> By: Adrienswords http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3907 Adrienswords Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:37:28 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3907 Actually I think <i>Piss Christ</i> was very Christian or very Catholic anyway. I don't know what he was thinking but when I saw it that's how I interpreted it. Actually I think Piss Christ was very Christian or very Catholic anyway. I don’t know what he was thinking but when I saw it that’s how I interpreted it.

]]> By: C.L. http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3906 C.L. Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:30:12 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3906 SL, I would never argue against the freedom to produce an image or satire of the kind here being discussed. You don't acknowledge me as a libertarian, I know, but I don't actually support censorship - not even against Serrano and his ilk. As I noted, this is a brilliantly executed and funny image. Poligoths has the goods. But rog has a point too - I think a strong one - when he wonders whether its iconoclastic oomph inadvertently favours the Mufti and his usurper's worldview. SL, I would never argue against the freedom to produce an image or satire of the kind here being discussed. You don’t acknowledge me as a libertarian, I know, but I don’t actually support censorship - not even against Serrano and his ilk.

As I noted, this is a brilliantly executed and funny image. Poligoths has the goods. But rog has a point too - I think a strong one - when he wonders whether its iconoclastic oomph inadvertently favours the Mufti and his usurper’s worldview.

]]> By: skepticlawyer http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-chronicles-of-hilalia/#comment-3905 skepticlawyer Tue, 16 Jan 2007 06:04:56 +0000 http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2361#comment-3905 Nothing is sacred (particularly when the Narnia film was so second rate compared to CS Lewis' book). The moment one begins to corral 'the sacred' from satire or parody, one is on a slippery slope to the ridiculous Islamic reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. Every tradition is fair game. That this principle is often unevenly applied by our friends on the left (think Serrano and <i>Piss Christ</i>, for example) reflects poorly on them. One either has freedom of speech subject only to rules concerning incitement and defamation, or one doesn't. Nothing is sacred (particularly when the Narnia film was so second rate compared to CS Lewis’ book). The moment one begins to corral ‘the sacred’ from satire or parody, one is on a slippery slope to the ridiculous Islamic reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. Every tradition is fair game.

That this principle is often unevenly applied by our friends on the left (think Serrano and Piss Christ, for example) reflects poorly on them. One either has freedom of speech subject only to rules concerning incitement and defamation, or one doesn’t.

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