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	<title>Comments on: The Spectacle</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3418</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3418</guid>
		<description>It's a small piece out of a much longer article. Very interesting, too:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Cruelty as popular entertainment, human sacrifice to indulge superstition, slavery as a labor-saving device, genocide for convenience, torture and mutilation as routine forms of punishment, execution for trivial crimes, assassination as a means of political succession, pogroms as an outlet for frustration and homicide as the major means of conflict resolution â€” all were unexceptionable features of life for most of human history. Yet today they are rare in the West, less common elsewhere than they used to be and widely condemned when they do occur.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Most people, sickened by the headlines and the bloody history of the 20th century, find this claim incredible. Yet as far as I know, every systematic attempt to document the prevalence of violence over centuries and millenniums (and for that matter, the last 50 years), particularly in the West, has shown that the overall trend is downward (though of course with many zigzags).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Anyone who doubts this by pointing to residues of force in the U.S. â€” capital punishment in Texas, Abu Ghraib, sex slavery in immigrant groups and so on â€” misses two key points. One is that, statistically, the prevalence of these practices is almost certainly a tiny fraction of what it was in centuries past. The other is that these practices are, to varying degrees, hidden, illegal, condemned or, at the very least, as in the case of capital punishment, intensely controversial. In the past, they were no big deal.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I'm not sure if violence has declined in absolute terms - certainly not during the 20th century, at any rate - but the idea that it's all good fun has  certainly gone by the by. Which is one of the reasons why reading Martial's &lt;em&gt;De Spectaculis&lt;/em&gt; is like being hit over the head with a spanner. People used to get off on this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a small piece out of a much longer article. Very interesting, too:</p>
<blockquote><p>Cruelty as popular entertainment, human sacrifice to indulge superstition, slavery as a labor-saving device, genocide for convenience, torture and mutilation as routine forms of punishment, execution for trivial crimes, assassination as a means of political succession, pogroms as an outlet for frustration and homicide as the major means of conflict resolution â€” all were unexceptionable features of life for most of human history. Yet today they are rare in the West, less common elsewhere than they used to be and widely condemned when they do occur.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Most people, sickened by the headlines and the bloody history of the 20th century, find this claim incredible. Yet as far as I know, every systematic attempt to document the prevalence of violence over centuries and millenniums (and for that matter, the last 50 years), particularly in the West, has shown that the overall trend is downward (though of course with many zigzags).</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Anyone who doubts this by pointing to residues of force in the U.S. â€” capital punishment in Texas, Abu Ghraib, sex slavery in immigrant groups and so on â€” misses two key points. One is that, statistically, the prevalence of these practices is almost certainly a tiny fraction of what it was in centuries past. The other is that these practices are, to varying degrees, hidden, illegal, condemned or, at the very least, as in the case of capital punishment, intensely controversial. In the past, they were no big deal.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if violence has declined in absolute terms - certainly not during the 20th century, at any rate - but the idea that it&#8217;s all good fun has  certainly gone by the by. Which is one of the reasons why reading Martial&#8217;s <em>De Spectaculis</em> is like being hit over the head with a spanner. People used to get off on this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3417</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3417</guid>
		<description>Just checked the link and it worked for me, there are a few pieces on the same page so you have to scroll down a bit. Otherwise do a search for it at latimes.com, the article is called "Looking through rose-colored microscopes" and it's on the second page.

Here's an excerpt:
&lt;blockquote&gt;In 16th century Paris, a popular form of entertainment was cat-burning, in which a cat was hoisted above a stage and then was slowly lowered into a fire. According to historian Norman Davies, "the spectators, including kings and queens, shrieked with laughter as the animals, howling with pain, were singed, roasted and finally carbonized." As horrific as present-day events are, such sadism would be unthinkable in most of the world. This is just one example of the most important and underappreciated trend in the history of our species: the decline of violence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just checked the link and it worked for me, there are a few pieces on the same page so you have to scroll down a bit. Otherwise do a search for it at latimes.com, the article is called &#8220;Looking through rose-colored microscopes&#8221; and it&#8217;s on the second page.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an excerpt:</p>
<blockquote><p>In 16th century Paris, a popular form of entertainment was cat-burning, in which a cat was hoisted above a stage and then was slowly lowered into a fire. According to historian Norman Davies, &#8220;the spectators, including kings and queens, shrieked with laughter as the animals, howling with pain, were singed, roasted and finally carbonized.&#8221; As horrific as present-day events are, such sadism would be unthinkable in most of the world. This is just one example of the most important and underappreciated trend in the history of our species: the decline of violence.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3416</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3416</guid>
		<description>Kitty, you haven't got a working link for that by any chance? That one seems busted, and I wouldn't mind reading it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kitty, you haven&#8217;t got a working link for that by any chance? That one seems busted, and I wouldn&#8217;t mind reading it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3415</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jan 2007 10:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3415</guid>
		<description>The descriptions of Roman sport brought to mind Steven Pinker's &lt;a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-edge7jan07,1,6237728.story?page=2&#038;cset=true&#038;ctrack=1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"&gt;little piece on the decline of violence&lt;/a&gt;. An interesting thought for those who think that we've currently reached some low point in humanity.

On a lighter note, I found the Teach Yourself  Latin by Gavin Betts very helpful but dense (helps if you like grammar!). Otherwise Peter Jones did a very accessible series with quaint illustrations originally published in the Daily Telegraph (UK), now known as "Learn Latin". He also did "Learn Ancient Greek" which is also a lot of fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The descriptions of Roman sport brought to mind Steven Pinker&#8217;s <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-edge7jan07,1,6237728.story?page=2&#038;cset=true&#038;ctrack=1" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">little piece on the decline of violence</a>. An interesting thought for those who think that we&#8217;ve currently reached some low point in humanity.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, I found the Teach Yourself  Latin by Gavin Betts very helpful but dense (helps if you like grammar!). Otherwise Peter Jones did a very accessible series with quaint illustrations originally published in the Daily Telegraph (UK), now known as &#8220;Learn Latin&#8221;. He also did &#8220;Learn Ancient Greek&#8221; which is also a lot of fun.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3414</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3414</guid>
		<description>Very witty John, bit like the name of that Irish airline... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very witty John, bit like the name of that Irish airline&#8230; <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3413</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3413</guid>
		<description>skeptic

Might I suggest that you are a "cunning linguist?" ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>skeptic</p>
<p>Might I suggest that you are a &#8220;cunning linguist?&#8221; <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: GMB</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3412</link>
		<dc:creator>GMB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 20:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3412</guid>
		<description>Now come on you international travellers.

No private jokes here.

What's the translation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now come on you international travellers.</p>
<p>No private jokes here.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the translation.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3411</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3411</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for reminding me. I don't think I figured out that little furphy until we'd crossed the Czech border. My the belly laugh was worth it, though :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou for reminding me. I don&#8217;t think I figured out that little furphy until we&#8217;d crossed the Czech border. My the belly laugh was worth it, though <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Deus Ex Macintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3410</link>
		<dc:creator>Deus Ex Macintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3410</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I was last in Ukraine and Germany in 99, and both started to come good after a week or so.&lt;/i&gt;

Except when trying to order still mineral water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I was last in Ukraine and Germany in 99, and both started to come good after a week or so.</i></p>
<p>Except when trying to order still mineral water.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/01/the-spectacle/#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 11:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=2302#comment-3409</guid>
		<description>Not sure how to say this, but languages seem to come easily to me - always have. I should probably speak about 6 of the more useful modern buggers by now; instead I speak two modern languages fluently (English &#038; Italian), one not too badly (Spanish). I also read three ancient languages (Latin, Old Icelandic and Anglo-Saxon).

I used to have reasonable Japanese, Ukrainian and German, but they're all &lt;i&gt;waaaay&lt;/i&gt; rusty now. They come back when I go to the country in question, though - I was last in Ukraine and Germany in 99, and both started to come good after a week or so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how to say this, but languages seem to come easily to me - always have. I should probably speak about 6 of the more useful modern buggers by now; instead I speak two modern languages fluently (English &#038; Italian), one not too badly (Spanish). I also read three ancient languages (Latin, Old Icelandic and Anglo-Saxon).</p>
<p>I used to have reasonable Japanese, Ukrainian and German, but they&#8217;re all <i>waaaay</i> rusty now. They come back when I go to the country in question, though - I was last in Ukraine and Germany in 99, and both started to come good after a week or so.</p>
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