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	<title>Comments on: Buying shares in a &#34;lemon&#34;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bozo</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10125</link>
		<dc:creator>Bozo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 20:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can never understand how you would value these claims. Wouldn't the punter have been just as likely to put their dosh into some other speculative penny dreadfull offering high returns? So either they were kept out of losing their money some other way or making a fortune.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can never understand how you would value these claims. Wouldn&#8217;t the punter have been just as likely to put their dosh into some other speculative penny dreadfull offering high returns? So either they were kept out of losing their money some other way or making a fortune.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10124</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 04:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, on further reflection that seems to be something that must follow almost as a matter of course.  The only scenario in which that might not be the case is where the relevant conduct is carried out by an employee, rather than director, and even then there might be circumstances where the directors are liable.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It'd be interesting to know what, if any, further litigation is planned in relation to this particular case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, on further reflection that seems to be something that must follow almost as a matter of course.  The only scenario in which that might not be the case is where the relevant conduct is carried out by an employee, rather than director, and even then there might be circumstances where the directors are liable.</p>
<p>It&#8217;d be interesting to know what, if any, further litigation is planned in relation to this particular case.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10123</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I like your suggestion that the company should have an in personam action against the directors of the company. Certainly, the directors would have breached their fiduciary duties towards the company by their actions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like your suggestion that the company should have an in personam action against the directors of the company. Certainly, the directors would have breached their fiduciary duties towards the company by their actions.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10122</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 00:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hiya, interesting blog you have here (I'm another lawyer who has recently begun blogging about similar-ish stuff).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Although I agree to a certain extent that this decision complicates the status of ordinary creditors in an insolvent company, by the same token it's important to remember that the element of 'misleading and deceptive conduct' remains at the heart of the decision.  The judgment doesn't mean that in respect of every company that goes insolvent, anyone who has recently bought shares will be able to launch a successful claim.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When you look at it carefully, it is apparent that if the directors had fully complied with their quite plain duties (i.e. to disclose certain information) then there would have been no claim.  This should not produce too much uncertainty for companies who are committed to fully complying with the law.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Additionally, in a practical sense how does one differentiate between the risk taken by a shareholder who makes a decision assuming they have true and complete information about the company, and an creditor?  Both surely have certain expectations about the company and take a calculated risk that they will recoup their investment.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However I totally agree that the appropriate remedy should be against the directors - an interesting (and obviously untested at the moment) question is whether, in fact, the company in administration now has a cause of action against its directors in personam.  Surely the answer is yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hiya, interesting blog you have here (I&#8217;m another lawyer who has recently begun blogging about similar-ish stuff).</p>
<p>Although I agree to a certain extent that this decision complicates the status of ordinary creditors in an insolvent company, by the same token it&#8217;s important to remember that the element of &#8216;misleading and deceptive conduct&#8217; remains at the heart of the decision.  The judgment doesn&#8217;t mean that in respect of every company that goes insolvent, anyone who has recently bought shares will be able to launch a successful claim.  </p>
<p>When you look at it carefully, it is apparent that if the directors had fully complied with their quite plain duties (i.e. to disclose certain information) then there would have been no claim.  This should not produce too much uncertainty for companies who are committed to fully complying with the law.  </p>
<p>Additionally, in a practical sense how does one differentiate between the risk taken by a shareholder who makes a decision assuming they have true and complete information about the company, and an creditor?  Both surely have certain expectations about the company and take a calculated risk that they will recoup their investment.</p>
<p>However I totally agree that the appropriate remedy should be against the directors - an interesting (and obviously untested at the moment) question is whether, in fact, the company in administration now has a cause of action against its directors in personam.  Surely the answer is yes?</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10121</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very perceptive comment, Cherryripe! If there was some deterrence for negligent or fraudulent company directors, it might be different.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The other thing I was thinking is: what if Magaretic had bought his shares 11 weeks rather than 11 days before SOG went into administration? Or 11 months? How would that change his claim? When precisely should directors place their company in voluntary administration?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very perceptive comment, Cherryripe! If there was some deterrence for negligent or fraudulent company directors, it might be different.</p>
<p>The other thing I was thinking is: what if Magaretic had bought his shares 11 weeks rather than 11 days before SOG went into administration? Or 11 months? How would that change his claim? When precisely should directors place their company in voluntary administration?</p>
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		<title>By: cherry ripe</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/buying-shares-in-a-lemon-2/#comment-10120</link>
		<dc:creator>cherry ripe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It seems to me that one of the problems of this decision is that it has little public policy value. There is no deterrent effect against ignorance in buying shares, nor are negligent or knowingly insolvent company directors deterred from acting badly because they suffer no direct loss as a result of the cause of action in this case. The only thing that suffers is the effectiveness of administration, and the ability of companies to seek investment from creditors. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Applying consumer legislation to the share market makes no sense. Consumer protection laws are premised upon the imbalance of knowledge between supplier and consumer, and facilitates confidence in a retail environment.  The share market is premised entirely differently: it runs on the basis of the free flow of information. Indeed, some have argued that even insider trading laws aren't justified on an economic basis. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Anyone who's had anything to do with shares (or just listened to Sat morning radio) knows that it's a fairly clear risk-return equation, but you need to do your homework. The tragedy of the situation is that ordinary people who invest in shares don't have the same access to expertise and knowledge as institutional investors. As a result, bad decisions are made. So perhaps this is a problem of the "share consumer" - the encouragement of so-called Mums and Dads investors, who compete in a market where massive super funds and others have vastly more resources and information at their disposal.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Buyer beware...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that one of the problems of this decision is that it has little public policy value. There is no deterrent effect against ignorance in buying shares, nor are negligent or knowingly insolvent company directors deterred from acting badly because they suffer no direct loss as a result of the cause of action in this case. The only thing that suffers is the effectiveness of administration, and the ability of companies to seek investment from creditors. </p>
<p>Applying consumer legislation to the share market makes no sense. Consumer protection laws are premised upon the imbalance of knowledge between supplier and consumer, and facilitates confidence in a retail environment.  The share market is premised entirely differently: it runs on the basis of the free flow of information. Indeed, some have argued that even insider trading laws aren&#8217;t justified on an economic basis. </p>
<p>Anyone who&#8217;s had anything to do with shares (or just listened to Sat morning radio) knows that it&#8217;s a fairly clear risk-return equation, but you need to do your homework. The tragedy of the situation is that ordinary people who invest in shares don&#8217;t have the same access to expertise and knowledge as institutional investors. As a result, bad decisions are made. So perhaps this is a problem of the &#8220;share consumer&#8221; - the encouragement of so-called Mums and Dads investors, who compete in a market where massive super funds and others have vastly more resources and information at their disposal.</p>
<p>Buyer beware&#8230;</p>
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