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	<title>Comments on: You can&#8217;t make a silk purse out of a sow&#8217;s ear&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; The Silk Road</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-20713</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; The Silk Road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/#comment-20713</guid>
		<description>[...] Chief Justice. At the time, I remarked that barristers seldom get feedback, but that I could offer some criticisms as an observer of barristers as a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chief Justice. At the time, I remarked that barristers seldom get feedback, but that I could offer some criticisms as an observer of barristers as a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; Cyber-court</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-12324</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; Cyber-court</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] sent to observe a case (although I admit nothing! nothing, I tell you!). As I have explained in a previous post, all my time in court watching cases has made me a sharp critic of barristers&#8217; performances - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sent to observe a case (although I admit nothing! nothing, I tell you!). As I have explained in a previous post, all my time in court watching cases has made me a sharp critic of barristers&#8217; performances - [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Catching some zzzzzzs... &#171; The Legal Soapbox</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10164</link>
		<dc:creator>Catching some zzzzzzs... &#171; The Legal Soapbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 14:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/#comment-10164</guid>
		<description>[...] that counsel should add a little pizazz to his or her argument&#8230; All counsel should read my post containing hints on how to be better [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that counsel should add a little pizazz to his or her argument&#8230; All counsel should read my post containing hints on how to be better [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10169</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 04:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Couldn't agree more, Paul. It's all about knowing what you're there for. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That being said, I know from sad experience that sometimes you don't have time to be properly prepared. Someone comes to your office with five folders you've never seen before and says "Can you go down to Court in half an hour with this file?" Therefore, I must admit that once a Master asked me "What happened to the Second Defendant?" (I was there on behalf of the Plaintiff). I had to admit, "I didn't have time to read the file fully, I don't know." How embarrassing. I think I blushed to the roots of my hair. But as you say, it's always better to admit you don't know than to make it up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Couldn&#8217;t agree more, Paul. It&#8217;s all about knowing what you&#8217;re there for. </p>
<p>That being said, I know from sad experience that sometimes you don&#8217;t have time to be properly prepared. Someone comes to your office with five folders you&#8217;ve never seen before and says &#8220;Can you go down to Court in half an hour with this file?&#8221; Therefore, I must admit that once a Master asked me &#8220;What happened to the Second Defendant?&#8221; (I was there on behalf of the Plaintiff). I had to admit, &#8220;I didn&#8217;t have time to read the file fully, I don&#8217;t know.&#8221; How embarrassing. I think I blushed to the roots of my hair. But as you say, it&#8217;s always better to admit you don&#8217;t know than to make it up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10168</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 03:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/#comment-10168</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts - I've been astounded by how bad some counsel can be.  I often sit there in court thinking, "I'm glad I'm not paying $5000/day for this."&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Some of my thoughts, which overlap with some of yours:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DON'T labour your good points: the Judge KNOWS what you are definitely right about from reading your submissions and generally knowing the law - what you need to convince him or her of is those points that you're &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; definitely right about.  Some of the best counsel I've seen barely touch on their good points - they get straight into nailing all of their dubious ones, even opening with "if I am to succeed, I need your Honour to accept the following:"&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DO bring the rules, legislation and authorities with you, for god's sake.  Absolutely unbelievable how many barristers don't even manage this.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DON'T mutter, snigger, interject, roll your eyes, or otherwise convey your disgust with the other side's submissions - it just makes you look childish and unprofessional, and does nothing whatsoever to help your client.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DO answer the judge's questions directly, rather than trying to skirt around them.  Judges know when you're dodging the real issue, and you are never going to 'slip one by them' by not answering directly: they'll just assume you don't know, or that you know you're wrong.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DON'T joke.  It is &lt;i&gt;very&lt;/i&gt; hard to crack a decent joke in submissions without breaking up the flow of your argument, looking silly, and (more importantly) simply not being funny.  It also makes you look nervous and/or unprofessional.  If you're going to joke, make sure (a) it's REALLY funny and appropriate and (b) you're &lt;i&gt;positive&lt;/i&gt; the judge will appreciate it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DON'T argue with witnesses.  Control them, but don't argue with them.  If they are uncooperative it will be obvious and will taint their evidence - but by arguing you create the impression that you are antagonising them.  And of course, you're not there to get a full confession, just to put your version of events and get them to agree or disagree.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;DO be clear about what orders you're seeking.  Judge's &lt;i&gt;hate&lt;/i&gt; the phrase "I'm in your Honour's hands" - you're there to ask for specific orders, and the Court is not there to pull orders out of the air for your benefit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts - I&#8217;ve been astounded by how bad some counsel can be.  I often sit there in court thinking, &#8220;I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;m not paying $5000/day for this.&#8221;</p>
<p>Some of my thoughts, which overlap with some of yours:</p>
<p>DON&#8217;T labour your good points: the Judge KNOWS what you are definitely right about from reading your submissions and generally knowing the law - what you need to convince him or her of is those points that you&#8217;re <i>not</i> definitely right about.  Some of the best counsel I&#8217;ve seen barely touch on their good points - they get straight into nailing all of their dubious ones, even opening with &#8220;if I am to succeed, I need your Honour to accept the following:&#8221;</p>
<p>DO bring the rules, legislation and authorities with you, for god&#8217;s sake.  Absolutely unbelievable how many barristers don&#8217;t even manage this.</p>
<p>DON&#8217;T mutter, snigger, interject, roll your eyes, or otherwise convey your disgust with the other side&#8217;s submissions - it just makes you look childish and unprofessional, and does nothing whatsoever to help your client.</p>
<p>DO answer the judge&#8217;s questions directly, rather than trying to skirt around them.  Judges know when you&#8217;re dodging the real issue, and you are never going to &#8217;slip one by them&#8217; by not answering directly: they&#8217;ll just assume you don&#8217;t know, or that you know you&#8217;re wrong.</p>
<p>DON&#8217;T joke.  It is <i>very</i> hard to crack a decent joke in submissions without breaking up the flow of your argument, looking silly, and (more importantly) simply not being funny.  It also makes you look nervous and/or unprofessional.  If you&#8217;re going to joke, make sure (a) it&#8217;s REALLY funny and appropriate and (b) you&#8217;re <i>positive</i> the judge will appreciate it.</p>
<p>DON&#8217;T argue with witnesses.  Control them, but don&#8217;t argue with them.  If they are uncooperative it will be obvious and will taint their evidence - but by arguing you create the impression that you are antagonising them.  And of course, you&#8217;re not there to get a full confession, just to put your version of events and get them to agree or disagree.</p>
<p>DO be clear about what orders you&#8217;re seeking.  Judge&#8217;s <i>hate</i> the phrase &#8220;I&#8217;m in your Honour&#8217;s hands&#8221; - you&#8217;re there to ask for specific orders, and the Court is not there to pull orders out of the air for your benefit.</p>
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		<title>By: Law Student</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10167</link>
		<dc:creator>Law Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sometimes i get some crazy ideas. People who are on the path of becoming barristers should also take drama classes, it would compliment their physical performance in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes i get some crazy ideas. People who are on the path of becoming barristers should also take drama classes, it would compliment their physical performance in court.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10166</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In light of your above comment, I just had a look at his &lt;a HREF="http://www.vicbar.com.au/c.1.3.aspx?RollNumber=1094" REL="nofollow"&gt;profile&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ewww!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In light of your above comment, I just had a look at his <a HREF="http://www.vicbar.com.au/c.1.3.aspx?RollNumber=1094" REL="nofollow">profile</a>.</p>
<p>Ewww!</p>
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		<title>By: HVB</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/02/you-cant-make-a-silk-purse-out-of-a-sows-ear-2/comment-page-1/#comment-10165</link>
		<dc:creator>HVB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 05:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have had one encounter with Mr Riordan, at a social event. He asked me to jump naked out of his birthday cake for his sixtieth birthday... &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Enough said, really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had one encounter with Mr Riordan, at a social event. He asked me to jump naked out of his birthday cake for his sixtieth birthday&#8230; </p>
<p>Enough said, really.</p>
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