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	<title>Comments on: Drugs and the law</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10615</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 13:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10615</guid>
		<description>Yes, Baby Barrister, I guess it's a matter of how far we want to infringe on people's rights. Do you start stopping barristers from overeating? Drinking too much? Smoking? As I said in my post above, my gut reaction is that I would hate someone else monitoring me. It's my business if I choose to take drugs or not, as much as it is if I eat hot chips for lunch every day or a healthy lettuce sandwich instead...

In light of Lad Litter's comments, I was thinking about the contrast between drugs (illegal) and alcohol (legal). I guess it's because drugs are perceived as more "dangerous" to those who use them. So we regard that as an area where the law can impinge on people's personal freedoms to an extent. Some drugs are more addictive than alcohol, and can lead people to take actions that they would not otherwise undertake (eg, heroin and ice). They cause social problems and health problems for society. But if we want to drink ourselves into a stupor, there is no law against that. Alcohol can equally well cause social and health problems. It's a tough one to work out.

As I said in my response to Lad Litter, I think the drug testing idea is not workable or appropriate. But I don't like the pretense that the law is "immune" from drugs. We're human beings too (honestly, we are!) I think it should be discussed and debated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Baby Barrister, I guess it&#8217;s a matter of how far we want to infringe on people&#8217;s rights. Do you start stopping barristers from overeating? Drinking too much? Smoking? As I said in my post above, my gut reaction is that I would hate someone else monitoring me. It&#8217;s my business if I choose to take drugs or not, as much as it is if I eat hot chips for lunch every day or a healthy lettuce sandwich instead&#8230;</p>
<p>In light of Lad Litter&#8217;s comments, I was thinking about the contrast between drugs (illegal) and alcohol (legal). I guess it&#8217;s because drugs are perceived as more &#8220;dangerous&#8221; to those who use them. So we regard that as an area where the law can impinge on people&#8217;s personal freedoms to an extent. Some drugs are more addictive than alcohol, and can lead people to take actions that they would not otherwise undertake (eg, heroin and ice). They cause social problems and health problems for society. But if we want to drink ourselves into a stupor, there is no law against that. Alcohol can equally well cause social and health problems. It&#8217;s a tough one to work out.</p>
<p>As I said in my response to Lad Litter, I think the drug testing idea is not workable or appropriate. But I don&#8217;t like the pretense that the law is &#8220;immune&#8221; from drugs. We&#8217;re human beings too (honestly, we are!) I think it should be discussed and debated.</p>
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		<title>By: Baby Barrister</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10614</link>
		<dc:creator>Baby Barrister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 13:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10614</guid>
		<description>You won't be surprised to hear that this has been the source of much gossip at the Bar in the past week.

In my personal opinion, drugs are an issue throughout society and all of the professions. The law is not an island in this regard. Just as in the rest of society, some people will lose control and jeopardise their and others' interests. So it is in the law.

On Faris, it seems that he has achieved his goal. Everyone is talking about him and his speculation on hearsay. It's not good publicity but that does not seem to matter.

Finally, on drug testing, where do you stop? I don't just mean in relation to drugs but which other of our liberties need to be impinged to appropriately sanitise and sterilise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You won&#8217;t be surprised to hear that this has been the source of much gossip at the Bar in the past week.</p>
<p>In my personal opinion, drugs are an issue throughout society and all of the professions. The law is not an island in this regard. Just as in the rest of society, some people will lose control and jeopardise their and others&#8217; interests. So it is in the law.</p>
<p>On Faris, it seems that he has achieved his goal. Everyone is talking about him and his speculation on hearsay. It&#8217;s not good publicity but that does not seem to matter.</p>
<p>Finally, on drug testing, where do you stop? I don&#8217;t just mean in relation to drugs but which other of our liberties need to be impinged to appropriately sanitise and sterilise?</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10619</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 08:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10619</guid>
		<description>You are right, the people who are administrators of the profession (the Bar Council, the Law Institute) do not tolerate the use of drugs or condone the use of drugs in any way. I take your point that individuals make a choice, and that's their responsibility.

Personally, I think drug testing of lawyers would be a waste of time, but it's good that at least the issue is being discussed. There have been heaps of rumours going around for years, and lots of stuff just swept under the carpet.

The unspoken issue is the relatively high incidence of depression and alcohol abuse by senior practitioners - there is evidence to suggest that some turn to abuse of alcohol and, by extension, drugs, to self-medicate and deal with the pressure (as Skepticlawyer says).

I think it would be better to try to deal with the problems in the industry than to allow people to self-medicate and potentially put themselves at risk of harm.

LE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right, the people who are administrators of the profession (the Bar Council, the Law Institute) do not tolerate the use of drugs or condone the use of drugs in any way. I take your point that individuals make a choice, and that&#8217;s their responsibility.</p>
<p>Personally, I think drug testing of lawyers would be a waste of time, but it&#8217;s good that at least the issue is being discussed. There have been heaps of rumours going around for years, and lots of stuff just swept under the carpet.</p>
<p>The unspoken issue is the relatively high incidence of depression and alcohol abuse by senior practitioners - there is evidence to suggest that some turn to abuse of alcohol and, by extension, drugs, to self-medicate and deal with the pressure (as Skepticlawyer says).</p>
<p>I think it would be better to try to deal with the problems in the industry than to allow people to self-medicate and potentially put themselves at risk of harm.</p>
<p>LE</p>
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		<title>By: Lad Litter</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10618</link>
		<dc:creator>Lad Litter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 06:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10618</guid>
		<description>I read the Age article and there was more in the Sunday Age today to repudiate Peter Faris' claims. I think
"1. We are people who are supposed to uphold the law"
is only potent if the profession condones drug use among its ranks. Clearly it does not. Individual practitioners make the same choices, to dabble or not, as the rest of the community, including footballers, with whom there is a parallel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the Age article and there was more in the Sunday Age today to repudiate Peter Faris&#8217; claims. I think<br />
&#8220;1. We are people who are supposed to uphold the law&#8221;<br />
is only potent if the profession condones drug use among its ranks. Clearly it does not. Individual practitioners make the same choices, to dabble or not, as the rest of the community, including footballers, with whom there is a parallel.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10617</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 13:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10617</guid>
		<description>Lad Litter,

I know what you mean. To an extent, why shouldn't what one does in one's private life be a lawyer's private business?

However, I think drug use by lawyers raises public issues for the following reasons:
1. We are people who are supposed to uphold the law and be ethical to a higher degree than others. Drug taking is illegal - so how can we be said to be a profession which upholds the law if we tolerate illegal practices within our ranks? It seems a bit hypocritical - it suggests that we're above the law.
2. If drugs use affects performance and service to clients, it also becomes an issue.
3. The conflict of interest point which you have already made. For example, Andrew Fraser, was a lawyer who got jailed in 2001 for heroin importation and trafficking, was involved with various criminals and traffickers, and acted as a defence lawyer to some of them.

Have a look at this interesting &lt;a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cocaine-and-the-law/2007/05/18/1178995413705.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; in &lt;i&gt;The Age&lt;/i&gt; the other day - provides a fair and balanced perspective.

LE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lad Litter,</p>
<p>I know what you mean. To an extent, why shouldn&#8217;t what one does in one&#8217;s private life be a lawyer&#8217;s private business?</p>
<p>However, I think drug use by lawyers raises public issues for the following reasons:<br />
1. We are people who are supposed to uphold the law and be ethical to a higher degree than others. Drug taking is illegal - so how can we be said to be a profession which upholds the law if we tolerate illegal practices within our ranks? It seems a bit hypocritical - it suggests that we&#8217;re above the law.<br />
2. If drugs use affects performance and service to clients, it also becomes an issue.<br />
3. The conflict of interest point which you have already made. For example, Andrew Fraser, was a lawyer who got jailed in 2001 for heroin importation and trafficking, was involved with various criminals and traffickers, and acted as a defence lawyer to some of them.</p>
<p>Have a look at this interesting <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cocaine-and-the-law/2007/05/18/1178995413705.html" rel="nofollow">article</a> in <i>The Age</i> the other day - provides a fair and balanced perspective.</p>
<p>LE</p>
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		<title>By: Lad Litter</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10616</link>
		<dc:creator>Lad Litter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 12:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10616</guid>
		<description>Tried cocaine twice but believe it was really only speed. Would it be a big issue because if members of the legal profession are using then they might know and protect suppliers? Otherwise, private lives, private business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tried cocaine twice but believe it was really only speed. Would it be a big issue because if members of the legal profession are using then they might know and protect suppliers? Otherwise, private lives, private business.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10620</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 13:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10620</guid>
		<description>Good points, Pete M,

I wouldn't want a doped up lawyer representing me, any more than I'd like doped up surgeon operating on me.

Who would pay for the testing? I suppose if solicitors worked in a firm, the firm would have to institute tests. A bit more difficult if they were sole practitioners or barristers - then it's up to the individual.

LE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Pete M,</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t want a doped up lawyer representing me, any more than I&#8217;d like doped up surgeon operating on me.</p>
<p>Who would pay for the testing? I suppose if solicitors worked in a firm, the firm would have to institute tests. A bit more difficult if they were sole practitioners or barristers - then it&#8217;s up to the individual.</p>
<p>LE</p>
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		<title>By: pete m</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10621</link>
		<dc:creator>pete m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 05:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10621</guid>
		<description>Never tried illegal drugs, never will - not my cup of tea.  I can never understand why reality is so bad one must escape it with something so dangerous.

Never come across any drug taking lawyer - solicitor or counsel.  Sad to hear of it.

When I first heard of this "let's drug test the lawyers" I thought it was a joke.  But ask yourself this - if you were an accused in any sort of serious criminal matter, would you be concerned to know if your lawyer was doped up?  The question is, who pays for the testing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never tried illegal drugs, never will - not my cup of tea.  I can never understand why reality is so bad one must escape it with something so dangerous.</p>
<p>Never come across any drug taking lawyer - solicitor or counsel.  Sad to hear of it.</p>
<p>When I first heard of this &#8220;let&#8217;s drug test the lawyers&#8221; I thought it was a joke.  But ask yourself this - if you were an accused in any sort of serious criminal matter, would you be concerned to know if your lawyer was doped up?  The question is, who pays for the testing?</p>
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		<title>By: LDU</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10625</link>
		<dc:creator>LDU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 04:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10625</guid>
		<description>When I came across that article I wasn't surprised. Today drugs are everywhere and used by many people in many different fields. Drug use has become something accepted in society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I came across that article I wasn&#8217;t surprised. Today drugs are everywhere and used by many people in many different fields. Drug use has become something accepted in society.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/05/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10624</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 02:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/05/16/drugs-and-the-law/#comment-10624</guid>
		<description>As someone who smoked a bit of dope in my hippy youth but has long since straightened out, I must admit I've been pretty stunned at the casual acceptance of drug use among lawyers. In many cases, it seems to be an extension of widespread alcohol use for 'self medication' purposes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who smoked a bit of dope in my hippy youth but has long since straightened out, I must admit I&#8217;ve been pretty stunned at the casual acceptance of drug use among lawyers. In many cases, it seems to be an extension of widespread alcohol use for &#8217;self medication&#8217; purposes.</p>
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