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	<title>Comments on: Quick post on hijabs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The subtle knife &#171; The Legal Soapbox</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10854</link>
		<dc:creator>The subtle knife &#171; The Legal Soapbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 07:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10854</guid>
		<description>[...] Canadian has alerted me to another interesting religious issue, following on from my post about hijabs at school. The issue involves the kirpan, the ceremonial sword worn by baptised Sikhs, or Khalsa [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Canadian has alerted me to another interesting religious issue, following on from my post about hijabs at school. The issue involves the kirpan, the ceremonial sword worn by baptised Sikhs, or Khalsa [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10853</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 01:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10853</guid>
		<description>Family history can have an impact on how you react to a particular place. The family of a friend of mine is Russian Jewish. Her hackles rise when she hears of anti-Semitic groups in Russia because of their family history. They suffered at the hands of both the Left and the Right. She would probably argue that Russia is as bad as Germany.

A long time ago, I was saying to a friend from Mainland China that there's so much hatred in Europe. She laughed bitterly. "Wait till they've been brewing that hatred and feeling of superiority for 5,000 years!" she said. I hadn't thought about it before, but of course Asia was divided in the same way as Europe, just for much longer.

On the topic of your ex-girlfriend, it's awful when you hear of a whole group of people being almost wiped out. I read a very sad article a few years back about all these Australian indigenous languages which are dying out because there's only one or two speakers left, and sometimes only one or two people left in a tribe.

I guess that's always happened through history. I was watching a documentary about the Carthaginians, &lt;i&gt;the&lt;/i&gt; Mediterranean power before the Romans came along, but the Romans wiped them and their culture out, so now no one knows what the Punic language was or what their traditions were. All we have left is Roman propaganda, which says they burned their children as offerings, and they worshipped a cruel horned god...

When I studied early Celtic history at university, we did an interesting exercise where one of the students had set out a whole bunch of quotes and we had to guess who had written them. The quotes all shared a theme. More "civilised" people were commenting on the barbarity and unpleasantness of an indigenous group. As it turned out, one was a Roman commenting on Celts, some were relatively modern day English commenting on the Irish, some were Australian settlers commenting on Aborigines, one was an American settler commenting on Native American people, one was a Roman commenting on Germanic tribes...the same Germanic tribes who would later think they were superior to anyone else! A group of "barbarians" can become the "civilised" people of a later age, looking down on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Family history can have an impact on how you react to a particular place. The family of a friend of mine is Russian Jewish. Her hackles rise when she hears of anti-Semitic groups in Russia because of their family history. They suffered at the hands of both the Left and the Right. She would probably argue that Russia is as bad as Germany.</p>
<p>A long time ago, I was saying to a friend from Mainland China that there&#8217;s so much hatred in Europe. She laughed bitterly. &#8220;Wait till they&#8217;ve been brewing that hatred and feeling of superiority for 5,000 years!&#8221; she said. I hadn&#8217;t thought about it before, but of course Asia was divided in the same way as Europe, just for much longer.</p>
<p>On the topic of your ex-girlfriend, it&#8217;s awful when you hear of a whole group of people being almost wiped out. I read a very sad article a few years back about all these Australian indigenous languages which are dying out because there&#8217;s only one or two speakers left, and sometimes only one or two people left in a tribe.</p>
<p>I guess that&#8217;s always happened through history. I was watching a documentary about the Carthaginians, <i>the</i> Mediterranean power before the Romans came along, but the Romans wiped them and their culture out, so now no one knows what the Punic language was or what their traditions were. All we have left is Roman propaganda, which says they burned their children as offerings, and they worshipped a cruel horned god&#8230;</p>
<p>When I studied early Celtic history at university, we did an interesting exercise where one of the students had set out a whole bunch of quotes and we had to guess who had written them. The quotes all shared a theme. More &#8220;civilised&#8221; people were commenting on the barbarity and unpleasantness of an indigenous group. As it turned out, one was a Roman commenting on Celts, some were relatively modern day English commenting on the Irish, some were Australian settlers commenting on Aborigines, one was an American settler commenting on Native American people, one was a Roman commenting on Germanic tribes&#8230;the same Germanic tribes who would later think they were superior to anyone else! A group of &#8220;barbarians&#8221; can become the &#8220;civilised&#8221; people of a later age, looking down on others.</p>
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		<title>By: fairlane</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10852</link>
		<dc:creator>fairlane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10852</guid>
		<description>Your point is well taken LE. I agree most countries have less than stellar histories. My ex-girlfriend was American Indian, a Miwok. I told her, and I mentioned this in a post, I'd never heard of Miwoks before. She said in a matter of fact way, "No one really has. Almost all of us our dead." European settlers exterminated them.

My point with Germany is the hackles on my neck raise when I hear about this stuff in relation to them. We have family that was forced to flee Germany in the 40's. Not because they were Jewish, they were pure German, Mauser, (the gun manufacturer) they opposed Hitler and had their lives threatened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your point is well taken LE. I agree most countries have less than stellar histories. My ex-girlfriend was American Indian, a Miwok. I told her, and I mentioned this in a post, I&#8217;d never heard of Miwoks before. She said in a matter of fact way, &#8220;No one really has. Almost all of us our dead.&#8221; European settlers exterminated them.</p>
<p>My point with Germany is the hackles on my neck raise when I hear about this stuff in relation to them. We have family that was forced to flee Germany in the 40&#8217;s. Not because they were Jewish, they were pure German, Mauser, (the gun manufacturer) they opposed Hitler and had their lives threatened.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10851</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10851</guid>
		<description>I do. Sukoshi dake (a little only) these days. It's a long time since I studied it at uni. My knowledge of Chinese characters has gone down drastically.

I went to my favourite sushi shop yesterday, and couldn't remember the word for "arm" when in conversation with the proprietors. I could remember everything else (leg, nose, eyes, hair, hand) but not arm. Don't ask me why! The brain is a mysterious thing.

I'm sure that if I visited again, it would all come back. Maybe it would even be better for having percolated in my brain for 10 years? Then again, maybe not. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do. Sukoshi dake (a little only) these days. It&#8217;s a long time since I studied it at uni. My knowledge of Chinese characters has gone down drastically.</p>
<p>I went to my favourite sushi shop yesterday, and couldn&#8217;t remember the word for &#8220;arm&#8221; when in conversation with the proprietors. I could remember everything else (leg, nose, eyes, hair, hand) but not arm. Don&#8217;t ask me why! The brain is a mysterious thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that if I visited again, it would all come back. Maybe it would even be better for having percolated in my brain for 10 years? Then again, maybe not. <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: LDU</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10850</link>
		<dc:creator>LDU</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10850</guid>
		<description>Eagle, you speak Japanese?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eagle, you speak Japanese?</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10849</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10849</guid>
		<description>Europe doesn't have a stellar record generally with regard to its treatment of Jews. There were plenty of collaborators with the Nazis throughout Europe. And it's not so long ago that the big menace to Europe was the Ottoman empire - there's historical precedent for Europeans looking on Turks darkly.

But then, I can't think of any country which does have a great historical reputation. Perhaps, unfortunately, nowhere is free of xenophobia.

I remember when I was in Japan, I heard some right-wing goon come past on a truck shouting slogans like "Resist Western decadence! Foreigners out of Japan!" Some poor guy on the street realised from my expression that I understood what the goon was saying, and came to apologise profusely. I said I wasn't offended: there's rednecks and racists in every country - but it's people like him who make it better. We all just have to resist, wherever we live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Europe doesn&#8217;t have a stellar record generally with regard to its treatment of Jews. There were plenty of collaborators with the Nazis throughout Europe. And it&#8217;s not so long ago that the big menace to Europe was the Ottoman empire - there&#8217;s historical precedent for Europeans looking on Turks darkly.</p>
<p>But then, I can&#8217;t think of any country which does have a great historical reputation. Perhaps, unfortunately, nowhere is free of xenophobia.</p>
<p>I remember when I was in Japan, I heard some right-wing goon come past on a truck shouting slogans like &#8220;Resist Western decadence! Foreigners out of Japan!&#8221; Some poor guy on the street realised from my expression that I understood what the goon was saying, and came to apologise profusely. I said I wasn&#8217;t offended: there&#8217;s rednecks and racists in every country - but it&#8217;s people like him who make it better. We all just have to resist, wherever we live.</p>
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		<title>By: fairlane</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10846</link>
		<dc:creator>fairlane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 05:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10846</guid>
		<description>The point is, Germany doesn't exactly have a stellar history when it comes to xenophobia, race relations, etc. It's not like the Holocaust was 500 years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is, Germany doesn&#8217;t exactly have a stellar history when it comes to xenophobia, race relations, etc. It&#8217;s not like the Holocaust was 500 years ago.</p>
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		<title>By: -k.</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10848</link>
		<dc:creator>-k.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 04:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10848</guid>
		<description>Fairlane, whilst it's fair to say that neo-Nazis hate foreigners, I don't believe it fair to be restricting the problem to Germany. The vast majority of Germans are appalled at the actions of neo-Nazis and go out of their way to demonstrate this.

Racial discrimination exists everywhere. Didn't France ban students from wearing hijabs not that long ago? Hasn't an Australian school just doctored a hijab out of a school photo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fairlane, whilst it&#8217;s fair to say that neo-Nazis hate foreigners, I don&#8217;t believe it fair to be restricting the problem to Germany. The vast majority of Germans are appalled at the actions of neo-Nazis and go out of their way to demonstrate this.</p>
<p>Racial discrimination exists everywhere. Didn&#8217;t France ban students from wearing hijabs not that long ago? Hasn&#8217;t an Australian school just doctored a hijab out of a school photo?</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10847</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10847</guid>
		<description>LDU,

I read your comment as wishing bad luck on the guy himself, rather than wishing for his wife to be harmed. The fact that you could envisage him harming his wife tends to suggest he wasn't a nice person.

That's the hard thing with blogging and e-mail - there's no tone, but we write quickly as if we were speaking - sometimes the message come across differently to what we intend (it has happened to me before a couple of times).

LE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LDU,</p>
<p>I read your comment as wishing bad luck on the guy himself, rather than wishing for his wife to be harmed. The fact that you could envisage him harming his wife tends to suggest he wasn&#8217;t a nice person.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the hard thing with blogging and e-mail - there&#8217;s no tone, but we write quickly as if we were speaking - sometimes the message come across differently to what we intend (it has happened to me before a couple of times).</p>
<p>LE</p>
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		<title>By: fairlane</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2007/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10845</link>
		<dc:creator>fairlane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legalsoapbox.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/quick-post-on-hijabs/#comment-10845</guid>
		<description>Of all places for this to happen it has to be Germany. I read about a year ago there's a growing "neo-Nazi" movement in Germany, and they in particular hate foreigners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of all places for this to happen it has to be Germany. I read about a year ago there&#8217;s a growing &#8220;neo-Nazi&#8221; movement in Germany, and they in particular hate foreigners.</p>
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