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	<title>Comments on: Ethics and the law - when can a lawyer &#8220;dob in&#8221; a client?</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/ethics-and-the-law-when-can-a-lawyer-dob-in-a-client/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/ethics-and-the-law-when-can-a-lawyer-dob-in-a-client/#comment-13249</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=670#comment-13249</guid>
		<description>[...] At her new SL-colonised digs, Legal Eagle explores the fascinating question of when a lawyer can dob in a client. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At her new SL-colonised digs, Legal Eagle explores the fascinating question of when a lawyer can dob in a client. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Warne</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/ethics-and-the-law-when-can-a-lawyer-dob-in-a-client/#comment-12121</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Warne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 13:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=670#comment-12121</guid>
		<description>I confess not to having thought too deeply about this hoary old chestnut before, but on reading this post, I wondered -- If a man is guilty and tells you so, why should there be any confidentiality in that?  Why should an officer of the court assist the guilty criminal in his trial after solemnly pleading that he is not guilty? I know the lawyer cannot put forward any positive case which suggests the client is innocent, and must be content with putting the Crown to its proof.  But the safeguards of the criminal law are mainly against wrongful conviction.  If the client is guilty, there is no danger of that.

Not everyone who says they are guilty is guilty of course.  Some people are nuts, some would prefer to avoid jail than to avoid conviction, and some people don't understand that though they did what they are alleged to have done, that does not in law make out the crime they are charged with.  But those concerns do not justify the obligation of confidentiality in the solicitor, or the privilege enjoyed by the criminal.  They require some lesser set of safeguards.

It might be said that if there were no confidentiality in admissions of guilt, no one would tell their solicitors they were guilty, and that would be socially undesirable because at least now lawyers whose clients tell them they're guilty are significantly constrained in how they can put the clients' case.  But the response is obvious: people already have an incentive not to tell their solicitors that they are guilty.

Why is it permissible for a lawyer to assist a man she knows to be guilty with his plea of not guilty, and subsequent defence but it is not permissible for the same lawyer to suggest alternative case theories which explain all the proven facts but inconsistent with her instructions in order to cast doubt on the Crown's case?  There is no bright line between the two scenarios is there? Isn't it a question of degree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I confess not to having thought too deeply about this hoary old chestnut before, but on reading this post, I wondered &#8212; If a man is guilty and tells you so, why should there be any confidentiality in that?  Why should an officer of the court assist the guilty criminal in his trial after solemnly pleading that he is not guilty? I know the lawyer cannot put forward any positive case which suggests the client is innocent, and must be content with putting the Crown to its proof.  But the safeguards of the criminal law are mainly against wrongful conviction.  If the client is guilty, there is no danger of that.</p>
<p>Not everyone who says they are guilty is guilty of course.  Some people are nuts, some would prefer to avoid jail than to avoid conviction, and some people don&#8217;t understand that though they did what they are alleged to have done, that does not in law make out the crime they are charged with.  But those concerns do not justify the obligation of confidentiality in the solicitor, or the privilege enjoyed by the criminal.  They require some lesser set of safeguards.</p>
<p>It might be said that if there were no confidentiality in admissions of guilt, no one would tell their solicitors they were guilty, and that would be socially undesirable because at least now lawyers whose clients tell them they&#8217;re guilty are significantly constrained in how they can put the clients&#8217; case.  But the response is obvious: people already have an incentive not to tell their solicitors that they are guilty.</p>
<p>Why is it permissible for a lawyer to assist a man she knows to be guilty with his plea of not guilty, and subsequent defence but it is not permissible for the same lawyer to suggest alternative case theories which explain all the proven facts but inconsistent with her instructions in order to cast doubt on the Crown&#8217;s case?  There is no bright line between the two scenarios is there? Isn&#8217;t it a question of degree?</p>
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		<title>By: Evan</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/ethics-and-the-law-when-can-a-lawyer-dob-in-a-client/#comment-11885</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=670#comment-11885</guid>
		<description>Interesting matter. 

I also believe Hughes did the right thing, both morally and in terms of his duty to his late client. 

I can't accept that privilege persists even after a client's death. That's gotta be nonsense. Looks like the North Carolina State Bar saw it the same way.

Hizzonner sounds like a real prick, though. One of your black-letter Barwick types, no doubt.

As for continuing to act for some turd who 'fesses-up to you that he dunnit, there's no problem with that. Provided, of course, he doesn't hop the Box and try to give false testimony.

You can't let him do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting matter. </p>
<p>I also believe Hughes did the right thing, both morally and in terms of his duty to his late client. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t accept that privilege persists even after a client&#8217;s death. That&#8217;s gotta be nonsense. Looks like the North Carolina State Bar saw it the same way.</p>
<p>Hizzonner sounds like a real prick, though. One of your black-letter Barwick types, no doubt.</p>
<p>As for continuing to act for some turd who &#8216;fesses-up to you that he dunnit, there&#8217;s no problem with that. Provided, of course, he doesn&#8217;t hop the Box and try to give false testimony.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t let him do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Skepticlawyer.com.au &#171; The Legal Soapbox</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/ethics-and-the-law-when-can-a-lawyer-dob-in-a-client/#comment-11883</link>
		<dc:creator>Skepticlawyer.com.au &#171; The Legal Soapbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 23:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=670#comment-11883</guid>
		<description>[...] out my new post on legal ethics and clients who confess to crimes. Helen also has an interesting post on whether libertarians and progressives can hammer out a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] out my new post on legal ethics and clients who confess to crimes. Helen also has an interesting post on whether libertarians and progressives can hammer out a [...]</p>
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