<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The scary side of karma</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers on law, legislation and liberty. And other stuff.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 14:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-13185</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-13185</guid>
		<description>I'm still intending to do something further on this, but have spent most of the time since exams putting my life back in order (including selling a house, which is remarkably difficult to do long distance).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still intending to do something further on this, but have spent most of the time since exams putting my life back in order (including selling a house, which is remarkably difficult to do long distance).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: diva</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-13184</link>
		<dc:creator>diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-13184</guid>
		<description>Just wondering if anyone can provide an update on this outing saga. I was cheering the lulz on grateful that the comeuppance was in progress. Then ... it's all gone way too quiet. Have gags been affixed to otherwise quite vocal websites? I can't imagine why the media -- particularly the current affairs shows or even Media Watch -- has not been reporting on the goings on. If so, it's too depressing for words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering if anyone can provide an update on this outing saga. I was cheering the lulz on grateful that the comeuppance was in progress. Then &#8230; it&#8217;s all gone way too quiet. Have gags been affixed to otherwise quite vocal websites? I can&#8217;t imagine why the media &#8212; particularly the current affairs shows or even Media Watch &#8212; has not been reporting on the goings on. If so, it&#8217;s too depressing for words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; Lulz and legals bleg</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12239</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; Lulz and legals bleg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 23:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12239</guid>
		<description>[...] Eagle and I have had a few requests, both online and offline, for a post on the legal issues arising out of the ongoing Spin Starts Here/Lulz [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Eagle and I have had a few requests, both online and offline, for a post on the legal issues arising out of the ongoing Spin Starts Here/Lulz [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12220</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 10:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12220</guid>
		<description>Just followed your tips, Helen - although I'm sure there's a fair bit more out there, too. No-one emerges with very much credit. It seems even Andrew Bolt got dragged in at one stage. 

Much of it seems to have its origins in a certain style of anonymous posting, which certainly led to troubles over at Catallaxy until - once again - Tim Blair outed the relevant party. 

The SSH crowd seemed to share the common Australian hatred of people who were nerdy and geeky - I saw the attack job they did on one teenage blogger (Sam?), purely because of his 'enthusiasms'.

Grods and Ms Fits, by contrast, go after people they consider uneducated, and mock them in a fairly standard 'culture wars' sense - ie 'you shouldn't comment, you wouldn't know'.

Very unpleasant all round.

LE &#038; I have discussed doing the 'mother of all blogging legals' posts at various times, but we haven't got round to it as yet. Maybe now's a good time. Anyway, off the library for me :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just followed your tips, Helen - although I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a fair bit more out there, too. No-one emerges with very much credit. It seems even Andrew Bolt got dragged in at one stage. </p>
<p>Much of it seems to have its origins in a certain style of anonymous posting, which certainly led to troubles over at Catallaxy until - once again - Tim Blair outed the relevant party. </p>
<p>The SSH crowd seemed to share the common Australian hatred of people who were nerdy and geeky - I saw the attack job they did on one teenage blogger (Sam?), purely because of his &#8216;enthusiasms&#8217;.</p>
<p>Grods and Ms Fits, by contrast, go after people they consider uneducated, and mock them in a fairly standard &#8216;culture wars&#8217; sense - ie &#8216;you shouldn&#8217;t comment, you wouldn&#8217;t know&#8217;.</p>
<p>Very unpleasant all round.</p>
<p>LE &#038; I have discussed doing the &#8216;mother of all blogging legals&#8217; posts at various times, but we haven&#8217;t got round to it as yet. Maybe now&#8217;s a good time. Anyway, off the library for me <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12208</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 02:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12208</guid>
		<description>Yes, I think in law that it doesn't matter whether someone else "did it to you first" - it's still wrong. Of course, in criminal law, there are defences like self-defence and provocation which recognise the natural human tendency to retaliate when attacked or provoked. But I don't they'd apply to something like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think in law that it doesn&#8217;t matter whether someone else &#8220;did it to you first&#8221; - it&#8217;s still wrong. Of course, in criminal law, there are defences like self-defence and provocation which recognise the natural human tendency to retaliate when attacked or provoked. But I don&#8217;t they&#8217;d apply to something like this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12200</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12200</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If it is wrong conduct in the first place, is it justified to do the same to TSSH as they did to others?&lt;/i&gt;

I'd assume that in law, no! Is that right?

SL, the story is fairly clear if you read Lefty's recent Blogging Farewell post and the Lulz Starts Here site - I'll post links when the boys aren't breathing down my neck for the computer session I promised :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If it is wrong conduct in the first place, is it justified to do the same to TSSH as they did to others?</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d assume that in law, no! Is that right?</p>
<p>SL, the story is fairly clear if you read Lefty&#8217;s recent Blogging Farewell post and the Lulz Starts Here site - I&#8217;ll post links when the boys aren&#8217;t breathing down my neck for the computer session I promised <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12194</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12194</guid>
		<description>Have to confess that I had no knowledge of TSSH/The Lulz Starts here debacle until this very moment, when a brief google search disclosed the whole saga. I also confess that I started out life as a very innocent blogger, entirely unaware of flamewars or anything like that. 

But it is an interesting example of karma - the biters bit! If it is wrong conduct in the first place, is it justified to do the same to TSSH as they did to others?

The thing that interests me is the &lt;a href="http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/49530/20060510-0000/www.spinstartshere.com/disclaimer.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;legal disclaimer&lt;/a&gt; on TSSH's former site (as saved on Pandora). It reads:

&lt;blockquote&gt;This site is intended for entertainment purposes. The views expressed here are written as satire or parody or are otherwise written as fair comment, a right afforded to the author(s) under freedom of speech legislation. The editors of this site purport that those who are the subject of commentary within these pages are those in the public eye, and as such are able to be held up to scrutiny as a matter of public interest.

People in the public eye aside, any similarity to any person living or dead is entirely coincidental.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Query how much of a &lt;b&gt;legal&lt;/b&gt; right to freedom of speech we have in Australia to begin with - thus I'm wondering what they mean by "freedom of speech legislation"! 

Cases like &lt;i&gt;Theophanous v Herald &#038; Weekly Times Ltd&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Stephens v West Australian Newspapers Ltd&lt;/i&gt; did puport to imply a right of freedom of political free speech into the Constitution, but I understand the scope of this was reconsidered in &lt;i&gt;Lange v Australian Broadcasting Corporation&lt;/i&gt;. That being said, public law is not my strong point - I'm really a private lawyer...what I don't know about freedom of speech laws could fill a very large book.

I'll see how I go. I have to write a conference paper over the next three weeks, and mark exams! In fact, I'm supposed to be writing the conference paper right now - better get back to it - procrastinating as usual...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to confess that I had no knowledge of TSSH/The Lulz Starts here debacle until this very moment, when a brief google search disclosed the whole saga. I also confess that I started out life as a very innocent blogger, entirely unaware of flamewars or anything like that. </p>
<p>But it is an interesting example of karma - the biters bit! If it is wrong conduct in the first place, is it justified to do the same to TSSH as they did to others?</p>
<p>The thing that interests me is the <a href="http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/49530/20060510-0000/www.spinstartshere.com/disclaimer.html" rel="nofollow">legal disclaimer</a> on TSSH&#8217;s former site (as saved on Pandora). It reads:</p>
<blockquote><p>This site is intended for entertainment purposes. The views expressed here are written as satire or parody or are otherwise written as fair comment, a right afforded to the author(s) under freedom of speech legislation. The editors of this site purport that those who are the subject of commentary within these pages are those in the public eye, and as such are able to be held up to scrutiny as a matter of public interest.</p>
<p>People in the public eye aside, any similarity to any person living or dead is entirely coincidental.</p></blockquote>
<p>Query how much of a <b>legal</b> right to freedom of speech we have in Australia to begin with - thus I&#8217;m wondering what they mean by &#8220;freedom of speech legislation&#8221;! </p>
<p>Cases like <i>Theophanous v Herald &#038; Weekly Times Ltd</i> and <i>Stephens v West Australian Newspapers Ltd</i> did puport to imply a right of freedom of political free speech into the Constitution, but I understand the scope of this was reconsidered in <i>Lange v Australian Broadcasting Corporation</i>. That being said, public law is not my strong point - I&#8217;m really a private lawyer&#8230;what I don&#8217;t know about freedom of speech laws could fill a very large book.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll see how I go. I have to write a conference paper over the next three weeks, and mark exams! In fact, I&#8217;m supposed to be writing the conference paper right now - better get back to it - procrastinating as usual&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12193</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 08:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12193</guid>
		<description>One of us would need to do some research. LE, are you up for this? I can assist as needed but my Finals start in less than a month and I'm handling a few small matters over here. Any evidentiary/discovery issues, do swing those by me though - all part of life's rich revision.
 
Have you got links for all of it, Helen? I understand their old site is at Pandora (NLA), but there must be more online records of what went on. I didn't have much knowledge of the SSH back story, although I did choose one of Skeletor's pieces for BBP06 (I think).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of us would need to do some research. LE, are you up for this? I can assist as needed but my Finals start in less than a month and I&#8217;m handling a few small matters over here. Any evidentiary/discovery issues, do swing those by me though - all part of life&#8217;s rich revision.</p>
<p>Have you got links for all of it, Helen? I understand their old site is at Pandora (NLA), but there must be more online records of what went on. I didn&#8217;t have much knowledge of the SSH back story, although I did choose one of Skeletor&#8217;s pieces for BBP06 (I think).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12192</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 08:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12192</guid>
		<description>Eagles, could one of you please do a post on the TSSH / Lulz Starts Here imbroglio? I'm interested to know things like - could their impersonation of other people on the internet be actionable? what about their behaviour towards An Onomous Lefty, and their publication of a Google Earth photo of somebody's house to "out" them and their location (which the Lulz site has repeated.)? What about the legal status of the present "anti TSSH" action of The Lulz Starts Here? It looks like a can of very juicy legal worms to me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eagles, could one of you please do a post on the TSSH / Lulz Starts Here imbroglio? I&#8217;m interested to know things like - could their impersonation of other people on the internet be actionable? what about their behaviour towards An Onomous Lefty, and their publication of a Google Earth photo of somebody&#8217;s house to &#8220;out&#8221; them and their location (which the Lulz site has repeated.)? What about the legal status of the present &#8220;anti TSSH&#8221; action of The Lulz Starts Here? It looks like a can of very juicy legal worms to me!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/05/the-scary-side-of-karma/comment-page-1/#comment-12170</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 08:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=715#comment-12170</guid>
		<description>Further on Sharon Stone - check out &lt;a href="http://stumblng.tumblr.com/post/36488291/hollywood-star-sharon-stone-has-apologised-for" rel="nofollow"&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt;. HA HA HA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further on Sharon Stone - check out <a href="http://stumblng.tumblr.com/post/36488291/hollywood-star-sharon-stone-has-apologised-for" rel="nofollow">this post</a>. HA HA HA.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
