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	<title>Comments on: Human rights and criticising Islam</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers and a larrikin on life, law and liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-22015</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-22015</guid>
		<description>Why has there not been a peep to 2 recent March, 2008 decision of the UN Human Rights Council that “Freedom of Expression” would now mean &quot;freedom FROM expresion!&quot;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Council#Resolution_concerning_religion

 Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights now redefines freedom of religion to include freedom from “defamation of religions” by insisting debate and commentary about religion must be “responsible”. 



Indeed, the ‘right’ to religious expression and speech can legally be restricted if take account of “public health and morals” and thus “respect for religions or belief”.   In June, 2008, the Article 19 sponsors - the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, led by Pakistan - further succeeded in banning any criticism of Islam during UN Human Rights Councils sittings.   


These sorts of measures might make some practical political sense, particularly in some of the world’s more volatile polities, such as Pakistan, but to legitimise these localised and culturally-specific measures as universal and a “right” to all humanity is obscene.  


While it would be silly to argue that these developments discredit the notion of ‘human rights’ ab initio, it would be even sillier to allow public equation of UN ‘human rights’ with ‘Australian agreement.’  Canada, Mark Steyne.?



To be sure, many human rights organisations, including Amnesty, have expressed opposition to these developments in the Human Rights Council.  On the other hand, they were much more demure during the frist twelve months when the focus was anti-Israel  So does Amnesty now claim the authority to pick and choose which UN “human rights” are acceptable, and which one’s Australia’s should ‘agree’ on?


It is this very Human Rights Council that all the pro-Charter of Rights Australians want to just copy and past hollus-bollus into our Charter!


YIKES!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why has there not been a peep to 2 recent March, 2008 decision of the UN Human Rights Council that “Freedom of Expression” would now mean &#8220;freedom FROM expresion!&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Council#Resolution_concerning_religion" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Council#Resolution_concerning_religion</a></p>
<p> Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights now redefines freedom of religion to include freedom from “defamation of religions” by insisting debate and commentary about religion must be “responsible”. </p>
<p>Indeed, the ‘right’ to religious expression and speech can legally be restricted if take account of “public health and morals” and thus “respect for religions or belief”.   In June, 2008, the Article 19 sponsors &#8211; the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, led by Pakistan &#8211; further succeeded in banning any criticism of Islam during UN Human Rights Councils sittings.   </p>
<p>These sorts of measures might make some practical political sense, particularly in some of the world’s more volatile polities, such as Pakistan, but to legitimise these localised and culturally-specific measures as universal and a “right” to all humanity is obscene.  </p>
<p>While it would be silly to argue that these developments discredit the notion of ‘human rights’ ab initio, it would be even sillier to allow public equation of UN ‘human rights’ with ‘Australian agreement.’  Canada, Mark Steyne.?</p>
<p>To be sure, many human rights organisations, including Amnesty, have expressed opposition to these developments in the Human Rights Council.  On the other hand, they were much more demure during the frist twelve months when the focus was anti-Israel  So does Amnesty now claim the authority to pick and choose which UN “human rights” are acceptable, and which one’s Australia’s should ‘agree’ on?</p>
<p>It is this very Human Rights Council that all the pro-Charter of Rights Australians want to just copy and past hollus-bollus into our Charter!</p>
<p>YIKES!</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-13255</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-13255</guid>
		<description>[...] Parish decries hate speech laws. In this case, the one&#8217;s being used to harass Mark Steyn. Legal Eagle and skepticlawyer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Parish decries hate speech laws. In this case, the one&#8217;s being used to harass Mark Steyn. Legal Eagle and skepticlawyer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Hate speech laws are hateful to liberal freedoms</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-13254</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Hate speech laws are hateful to liberal freedoms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:01:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-13254</guid>
		<description>[...] - Legal Eagle also has an excellent post on the Steyn case, with some useful quotes from the Victorian Court of Appeal&#8217;s decision in Catch the Fire [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; Legal Eagle also has an excellent post on the Steyn case, with some useful quotes from the Victorian Court of Appeal&#8217;s decision in Catch the Fire [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12518</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12518</guid>
		<description>JG - I&#039;d tend to put that a different way. I&#039;d say we&#039;re obliged to stand up for the values of the Enlightenment,  liberal-democracy, political liberty etc.

Standing &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt; something is far superior to finger-pointing and I don&#039;t think Islam&#039;s particularly bad. It&#039;s just that the Enlightenment is reaching them last. Given the forked-tongue and dual visages shown the Muslim world by the West over the last century and a bit I don&#039;t really blame them for their hestance to endorse the virtues of modernity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JG &#8211; I&#8217;d tend to put that a different way. I&#8217;d say we&#8217;re obliged to stand up for the values of the Enlightenment,  liberal-democracy, political liberty etc.</p>
<p>Standing <i>for</i> something is far superior to finger-pointing and I don&#8217;t think Islam&#8217;s particularly bad. It&#8217;s just that the Enlightenment is reaching them last. Given the forked-tongue and dual visages shown the Muslim world by the West over the last century and a bit I don&#8217;t really blame them for their hestance to endorse the virtues of modernity.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hasenkam</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12516</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hasenkam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12516</guid>
		<description>http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080616/gay-brain-shows-gender-atypical-traits?src=RSS_PUBLIC
...Using magnetic resonance (MR) imaging, researchers from Stockholm&#039;s
Karolinska Institute found that the brains of straight men and gay
women tended to be slightly asymmetric, with the right hemisphere
somewhat larger than the left.

The asymmetry was not seen in straight women and gay men.
...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080616/gay-brain-shows-gender-atypical-traits?src=RSS_PUBLIC" rel="nofollow">http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20080616/gay-brain-shows-gender-atypical-traits?src=RSS_PUBLIC</a><br />
&#8230;Using magnetic resonance (MR) imaging, researchers from Stockholm&#8217;s<br />
Karolinska Institute found that the brains of straight men and gay<br />
women tended to be slightly asymmetric, with the right hemisphere<br />
somewhat larger than the left.</p>
<p>The asymmetry was not seen in straight women and gay men.<br />
&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12514</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12514</guid>
		<description>I argue that everybody in the West has a human rights OBLIGATION to criticise Islam loudly and often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I argue that everybody in the West has a human rights OBLIGATION to criticise Islam loudly and often.</p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12511</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12511</guid>
		<description>SL/LE

I&#039;d be very keen to see your jurispredential lasers pierce the government&#039;s intention to sign the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Persons. Keith Windschuttle sets out the issues nicely in this month&#039;s Quadrant, summarised in today&#039;s Oz.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23874574-7583,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SL/LE</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be very keen to see your jurispredential lasers pierce the government&#8217;s intention to sign the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Persons. Keith Windschuttle sets out the issues nicely in this month&#8217;s Quadrant, summarised in today&#8217;s Oz.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23874574-7583,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23874574-7583,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12499</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12499</guid>
		<description>***sigh*** 

Repeat after me 100 times - &quot;There is no such thing as freedom from offense. There is no such thing...&quot; (ad nauseum)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>***sigh*** </p>
<p>Repeat after me 100 times &#8211; &#8220;There is no such thing as freedom from offense. There is no such thing&#8230;&#8221; (ad nauseum)</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Edwards</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12485</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Edwards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12485</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why wouldn’t Macleans wish to allow such space?&quot;

Because it&#039;s their property, and anyone (including you) who wants to force them to print an article they otherwise wouldn&#039;t is advocating the use of government aggression against private property. There is no moral justification for this.

Perhaps you would have no objection if the government forced you to give me full control over your blog for a day, yes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why wouldn’t Macleans wish to allow such space?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because it&#8217;s their property, and anyone (including you) who wants to force them to print an article they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t is advocating the use of government aggression against private property. There is no moral justification for this.</p>
<p>Perhaps you would have no objection if the government forced you to give me full control over your blog for a day, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/06/07/human-rights-and-criticising-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-12482</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=726#comment-12482</guid>
		<description>Not so much sanitised - rather that I was expecting something really, really horrendously offensive. Also, as I&#039;ve acknowledged in previous posts, as a secular woman, I sometimes find it hard to judge how offensive something might be to a person of a particular religion, because I have no personal religious beliefs for comparison.

I think the CIC were entitled to &lt;i&gt;ask&lt;/i&gt; for equal space to be given to a Muslim writer, but certainly not entitled to try to &lt;i&gt;force&lt;/i&gt; the magazine to adopt a similar length piece by an author of their choice. In the latter scenario, the magazine has no choice in the matter, presumably no right to veto any part of the article and has no idea which author will be chosen. You can&#039;t reasonably expect a commercial entity which relies on publication for its income to do that.

If I had been the CIC, I would have sourced a quality article before I made such demands, and then presented it to the magazine - the magazine would be far more likely to accept something which they could assess and vet than to accept someone else dictating the publication of an article where the magazine would have no idea of the content or the author.

In addition, I understand that the magazine did publish a number of Letters to the Editor (primarily from members of the CIC) which expressed views about the inaccuracies of the Steyn piece and the fact that it was insulting to some Muslim people. 

I seriously think, also, that there is an (unintended) backhanded compliment to Muslims in Steyn&#039;s writings. The West is castigated by Steyn as morally weak, unwilling to stand up for its own values and unwilling to defend its religion - and these things are portrayed as &lt;i&gt;bad&lt;/i&gt; things...whereas the Muslim world has no problem (in Steyn&#039;s view) with moral weakness, standing up for Muslim values or defending its religion to the hilt. Thus, I detect a bit of unconscious envy there (ie, if only &quot;&lt;i&gt;we&lt;/i&gt;&quot; had those strengths). Whether his depiction of the Muslim world as a monolithic block of faithfulness is accurate...well that&#039;s a different story.

In the end, I see both Steyn and the CIC as divisive - expressing a real &quot;Us&quot; and &quot;Them&quot; mentality. But that being said, I do believe Steyn has the right to say these things, even though I don&#039;t agree with him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not so much sanitised &#8211; rather that I was expecting something really, really horrendously offensive. Also, as I&#8217;ve acknowledged in previous posts, as a secular woman, I sometimes find it hard to judge how offensive something might be to a person of a particular religion, because I have no personal religious beliefs for comparison.</p>
<p>I think the CIC were entitled to <i>ask</i> for equal space to be given to a Muslim writer, but certainly not entitled to try to <i>force</i> the magazine to adopt a similar length piece by an author of their choice. In the latter scenario, the magazine has no choice in the matter, presumably no right to veto any part of the article and has no idea which author will be chosen. You can&#8217;t reasonably expect a commercial entity which relies on publication for its income to do that.</p>
<p>If I had been the CIC, I would have sourced a quality article before I made such demands, and then presented it to the magazine &#8211; the magazine would be far more likely to accept something which they could assess and vet than to accept someone else dictating the publication of an article where the magazine would have no idea of the content or the author.</p>
<p>In addition, I understand that the magazine did publish a number of Letters to the Editor (primarily from members of the CIC) which expressed views about the inaccuracies of the Steyn piece and the fact that it was insulting to some Muslim people. </p>
<p>I seriously think, also, that there is an (unintended) backhanded compliment to Muslims in Steyn&#8217;s writings. The West is castigated by Steyn as morally weak, unwilling to stand up for its own values and unwilling to defend its religion &#8211; and these things are portrayed as <i>bad</i> things&#8230;whereas the Muslim world has no problem (in Steyn&#8217;s view) with moral weakness, standing up for Muslim values or defending its religion to the hilt. Thus, I detect a bit of unconscious envy there (ie, if only &#8220;<i>we</i>&#8221; had those strengths). Whether his depiction of the Muslim world as a monolithic block of faithfulness is accurate&#8230;well that&#8217;s a different story.</p>
<p>In the end, I see both Steyn and the CIC as divisive &#8211; expressing a real &#8220;Us&#8221; and &#8220;Them&#8221; mentality. But that being said, I do believe Steyn has the right to say these things, even though I don&#8217;t agree with him.</p>
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