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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;The Elephant in the Room&#8221;: work practices of solicitors</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers and a larrikin on life, law and liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12952</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 23:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12952</guid>
		<description>If there were less available lawyers, then firms would treat them better...they would be scarce and therefore more valuable. Just simple scarcity economics. But since there&#039;s a glut, they&#039;re just cannon-fodder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there were less available lawyers, then firms would treat them better&#8230;they would be scarce and therefore more valuable. Just simple scarcity economics. But since there&#8217;s a glut, they&#8217;re just cannon-fodder.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan N</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12943</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12943</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting how people point to the oversupply of lawyers as a reason for bad hours. Surely it would make sense if there was a glut to reduce the amount of hours somebody works and pay everybody less? It&#039;s interesting that an oversupply of workers can reduce their demand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting how people point to the oversupply of lawyers as a reason for bad hours. Surely it would make sense if there was a glut to reduce the amount of hours somebody works and pay everybody less? It&#8217;s interesting that an oversupply of workers can reduce their demand.</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12931</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12931</guid>
		<description>Pedro, I agree that you can&#039;t take on a really complex file which requires daily attention if you are part-time. Or do a big trial which needs court attendances for weeks on end. 

So it&#039;s natural that you don&#039;t get as good work as someone who is full time when you only work a few days a week. But as you say, there&#039;s definitely still meaningful stuff you can do - no need to be stuck in precedents...

Totally agree that the time measure is totally inadequate to understanding costs - far too crude, and doesn&#039;t reflect the intellectual effort that goes into doing a particular task. Or the complexity of the task.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pedro, I agree that you can&#8217;t take on a really complex file which requires daily attention if you are part-time. Or do a big trial which needs court attendances for weeks on end. </p>
<p>So it&#8217;s natural that you don&#8217;t get as good work as someone who is full time when you only work a few days a week. But as you say, there&#8217;s definitely still meaningful stuff you can do &#8211; no need to be stuck in precedents&#8230;</p>
<p>Totally agree that the time measure is totally inadequate to understanding costs &#8211; far too crude, and doesn&#8217;t reflect the intellectual effort that goes into doing a particular task. Or the complexity of the task.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12922</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 05:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12922</guid>
		<description>A few years ago I tried to work out how to tap into all the solicitor/mothers I imagine are at home or back at work and wanting a flexible work enviornment.  My idea was that you could make flexible hours work as long as you did not expect the lawyers to take on complicated files.  I know a couple of mums who job-shared as senior associates in the Sydney office of a top tier firm and that seemed to work ok, but again I think there were limits on the files they could take on.  Too hard to share a complicated file.

A general manager at a big firm told me (as a timesheet recalcitrant) that the time recording was most important to understand costs.  Which is crap because the measure is too crude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few years ago I tried to work out how to tap into all the solicitor/mothers I imagine are at home or back at work and wanting a flexible work enviornment.  My idea was that you could make flexible hours work as long as you did not expect the lawyers to take on complicated files.  I know a couple of mums who job-shared as senior associates in the Sydney office of a top tier firm and that seemed to work ok, but again I think there were limits on the files they could take on.  Too hard to share a complicated file.</p>
<p>A general manager at a big firm told me (as a timesheet recalcitrant) that the time recording was most important to understand costs.  Which is crap because the measure is too crude.</p>
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		<title>By: Armagny</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12919</link>
		<dc:creator>Armagny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12919</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t sorry- it was actually back when I studied jurisprudence, so we&#039;re talking late 90s!

I think it might have been a harvard crit who wrote it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t sorry- it was actually back when I studied jurisprudence, so we&#8217;re talking late 90s!</p>
<p>I think it might have been a harvard crit who wrote it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12916</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12916</guid>
		<description>Hey Armagny, can you remember where you read that academic article? Would like to read it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Armagny, can you remember where you read that academic article? Would like to read it.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12915</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12915</guid>
		<description>No-one&#039;s told Oxford - they even expect essays from scientists. 3 or 3.5 hours, every paper anonymised and double marked, with borderline papers triple marked.

This - not the lovely sandstone or &#039;interesting&#039; dress or port after supper - is the real indicator of privilege.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No-one&#8217;s told Oxford &#8211; they even expect essays from scientists. 3 or 3.5 hours, every paper anonymised and double marked, with borderline papers triple marked.</p>
<p>This &#8211; not the lovely sandstone or &#8216;interesting&#8217; dress or port after supper &#8211; is the real indicator of privilege.</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; Sometimes, it&#8217;s good to be a lawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12912</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; Sometimes, it&#8217;s good to be a lawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12912</guid>
		<description>[...] been down on being a lawyer lately, particularly after job woes and writing that post on billable hours. However, tonight I was pleased to be a lawyer. Briefly, a friend called me in distress because of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] been down on being a lawyer lately, particularly after job woes and writing that post on billable hours. However, tonight I was pleased to be a lawyer. Briefly, a friend called me in distress because of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12909</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12909</guid>
		<description>Zounds, Conrad! I hope you&#039;re not right - the whole point of law is the shades of grey. I tend to agree - once you&#039;re at that point, you may as well ditch exams altogether.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zounds, Conrad! I hope you&#8217;re not right &#8211; the whole point of law is the shades of grey. I tend to agree &#8211; once you&#8217;re at that point, you may as well ditch exams altogether.</p>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/07/06/the-elephant-in-the-room-work-practices-of-solicitors/comment-page-1/#comment-12908</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=770#comment-12908</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m sure I heard one of my friends who was at a different university say that she had a multiple choice law exam once. What a ridiculous concept!&quot;

Here&#039;s my bet. Most law faculties in Australia use multiple choice exams, so get used to it! No-one says they&#039;re the best thing (far from it), but once you have huge numbers of students you end up using them because they&#039;re quick to run and they differentiate between students well. In fact, you can get whole degrees and answer nothing more than multiple choice questions on exams these days (including the social sciences!). My suggestion is to ditch exams altogether once it has got this stage, but everyone expects to have to do exams, no matter how little they learn from them (students, accrediting organizations, most staff). Where I work, students complain if they have to do anything more than multiple choice on exams now, and because of this and teaching evaluations, written answers have pretty much gone they way of the dodo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m sure I heard one of my friends who was at a different university say that she had a multiple choice law exam once. What a ridiculous concept!&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my bet. Most law faculties in Australia use multiple choice exams, so get used to it! No-one says they&#8217;re the best thing (far from it), but once you have huge numbers of students you end up using them because they&#8217;re quick to run and they differentiate between students well. In fact, you can get whole degrees and answer nothing more than multiple choice questions on exams these days (including the social sciences!). My suggestion is to ditch exams altogether once it has got this stage, but everyone expects to have to do exams, no matter how little they learn from them (students, accrediting organizations, most staff). Where I work, students complain if they have to do anything more than multiple choice on exams now, and because of this and teaching evaluations, written answers have pretty much gone they way of the dodo.</p>
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