L’eagle - your objections are foolish this is a vital issue in the world’s greatest democracy. It marks the high levels of intelligence, moral courage and enlightened civility that made American great.

We should have more of this kind of thing here. At the next election the Libs should run on the slogan Don’t Vote for Kevvie. He’s a pooey man.

lefty types …who won’t think twice about calling people bogans and generally mocking them for not having had the same chances in life they have/the area they live in.

I don’t want to endorse snobbery here. But I’d like to make a potentially unpopular observation.

The term ‘bogan’ (which I think comes from bogie - the Oz term for male 50s rockers) is not just a class term but one that denotes youth subculture. I had friends who were ‘bogans’ (bevans in Qld) who were middle-class. And I’ve known working class punks and mods.

The contemporary bogan is less a rocker than a b-boy type. B-boys I suppose reflect contemporary ethnic diversity. However certain stereotypical traits remain. Having coarse manners and being proud of that, a propensity for violence, an aversion to reading.

These are stereotypes. They don’t apply universally. There are those who do their best to aspire to them unfortunately. I wonder to what extent people are ‘bogans’ because of unpriviledged background and to what extent they choose to be.

PS I once knew an avowedly Tory Englishman who decried certain ‘working class’ northerners of our mutual acquaintance as ‘racistsexisthomophobic’. He spun these words out so many times they were a bit like the bleating of a sheep.

He was an out and out snob, proud of it, looking forward to his future in a posh townhouse while they rotted in their council flats. He felt entitled to this future. Given his lack of brains, talent, guts and common sense and the fact that he was born after the 60s I had my doubts about his rosy expectations.

They, btw, were not bigots. but he was a jerk.

Like you pointed out, seeing the amount of lefty types who’ll loudly denounce racism and homophobia (and sometimes sexism), yet who won’t think twice about calling people bogans and generally mocking them for not having had the same chances in life they have/the area they live in.

The Americans had a US version of this with Sarah Palin last week. Then she stuck it to the ‘elites’ and they suddenly realised they had a tiger by the tail. This must be excruciating for Obama, because - despite the odd snobby comment - I don’t actually think he’s a snob, and he had a very ordinary start in life. Being in politics makes it impossible to choose your supporters, I guess.

Australia is young and our social divisions are fluid and evolving, unlike the well-entrenched English class system. It was once free settler v convict, which incorporated race (Irish v English) and religion (Catholic v Anglican). These divisions have faded, to be replaced to some extent by East v West, Christian v non-C., and anti-Semitism seemingly always just beneath the surface.

I think generally speaking money is the biggest separator down here, and as such allows movement across boundaries (something no amount of money will achieve in England) although not all have need to make a ‘climb up’.

GBS’s Pygmalion says it best. She left him at the end remember (unlike in the saccharine My Fair Lady), finding Higgins essentially morally weak and a self-indulgent prick. Unworthy of her – don’t you love it. She could be taught to move up a class, that was changing the exterior, but he couldn’t grasp her reasoning at not being at ease in their class, that would mean him changing his interior.

Eliza 1, Class System 0

Legal Eagle: I went to a private school, too. Snobbery was rife there.

I think, once again, like it’s been pointed out several times, it’s about the person, not the stereotype, but if your experience has been shaped by being around people who fit that stereotype and only them, particularly if you’re on the “short end of the stick,” I can understand why someone would have prejudice against private schoolers.

Not saying it’s fair or right, but that it mightn’t be entirely baseless, and when you’re one of the have-nots, you’re going to notice things about the haves that they’re unaware of.

Two things about classism never fail to amaze me:

– Seeing classism packaged up by people and then sold back to the people it’s laughing at, and then being lapped up by that same group. Erm, guys, they’re laughing their way to the bank account. AT you, not WITH you. (I could possibly go along with the “for us, by us” idea if I didn’t know that at least one of the Kath and Kim “comedians” went to a toffy private school as a teenager.)

– Like you pointed out, seeing the amount of lefty types who’ll loudly denounce racism and homophobia (and sometimes sexism), yet who won’t think twice about calling people bogans and generally mocking them for not having had the same chances in life they have/the area they live in.

Anyway, yeah: thanks for this post.