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	<title>Comments on: Baldrick&#8217;s Book of Cunning Plans</title>
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	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers and a larrikin on life, law and liberty.</description>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; &#8216;Cleanliness is next to Godliness&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-28108</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; &#8216;Cleanliness is next to Godliness&#8217;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-28108</guid>
		<description>[...] story, of course, is feeding into the Karen Matthews saga &#8212; she also had a filthy house, coupled with filthy children. It is also broaching wider [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] story, of course, is feeding into the Karen Matthews saga &#8212; she also had a filthy house, coupled with filthy children. It is also broaching wider [...]</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer &#187; Parenthood</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-28107</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer &#187; Parenthood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-28107</guid>
		<description>[...] child, or stand idly by while another person harmed their child. This was brought to my mind by Skepticlawyer&#8217;s post on the cases of Shannon Matthews and Baby [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] child, or stand idly by while another person harmed their child. This was brought to my mind by Skepticlawyer&#8217;s post on the cases of Shannon Matthews and Baby [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21730</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21730</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Do we let economic realities determine the fate of people or is our society driven by values other than just economic determinism?&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think we have a choice in that matter. I agree with Marx that the modes of production will determine the range of political models and life choices open to us. I don;t agree with his historiography. Feudalism was an alternative to slave based societies within the same economic milieu.

Thus all of our values will be, if not determined by, affected by our economic context. The idea that one can be &#039;whatever one wants to be&#039; might be a romantic dream but its one that wouldn&#039;t even be possible to consider for anyone who lved in, say, the 12th century. 

That said often these days it seems like everything is being run by accountants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Do we let economic realities determine the fate of people or is our society driven by values other than just economic determinism?</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we have a choice in that matter. I agree with Marx that the modes of production will determine the range of political models and life choices open to us. I don;t agree with his historiography. Feudalism was an alternative to slave based societies within the same economic milieu.</p>
<p>Thus all of our values will be, if not determined by, affected by our economic context. The idea that one can be &#8216;whatever one wants to be&#8217; might be a romantic dream but its one that wouldn&#8217;t even be possible to consider for anyone who lved in, say, the 12th century. </p>
<p>That said often these days it seems like everything is being run by accountants.</p>
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		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21688</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21688</guid>
		<description>The answers would seem to be yes, and no - respectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answers would seem to be yes, and no &#8211; respectively.</p>
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		<title>By: John Hasenkam</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21589</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hasenkam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21589</guid>
		<description>In any society there will always be a certain number who simply do not make it, fit in, become part of the &quot;greater society&quot;. This is one reason why the leftist argument of promoting inclusiveness has value, it helps reduce the number who cannot. Despite the rather ineffective nature of ant-discrimination laws these have helped make life a lot more tolerable for those left out in the rain. 

As I previously stated, we have a choice. Do we let economic realities determine the fate of people or is our society driven by values other than just economic determinism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In any society there will always be a certain number who simply do not make it, fit in, become part of the &#8220;greater society&#8221;. This is one reason why the leftist argument of promoting inclusiveness has value, it helps reduce the number who cannot. Despite the rather ineffective nature of ant-discrimination laws these have helped make life a lot more tolerable for those left out in the rain. </p>
<p>As I previously stated, we have a choice. Do we let economic realities determine the fate of people or is our society driven by values other than just economic determinism?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21586</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21586</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But even in biblical times they noticed the poor are always with ye. The causes of this level of disadvantage lie elsewhere.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/hogarth-gin-lane.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;True&lt;/a&gt;. 

You can laugh but these are the people that founded &#039;Straya. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But even in biblical times they noticed the poor are always with ye. The causes of this level of disadvantage lie elsewhere.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/hogarth-gin-lane.jpg" rel="nofollow">True</a>. </p>
<p>You can laugh but these are the people that founded &#8216;Straya. <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21537</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21537</guid>
		<description>Britain is much worse than the US, Australia and Europe for this -- and &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; worse than the very strong welfare states like Sweden or Denmark. This has already been discussed in the comments.

Of course, there may be something catastrophically wrong with the Brits. Maybe they respond to different incentives -- although somehow, I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Britain is much worse than the US, Australia and Europe for this &#8212; and <i>much</i> worse than the very strong welfare states like Sweden or Denmark. This has already been discussed in the comments.</p>
<p>Of course, there may be something catastrophically wrong with the Brits. Maybe they respond to different incentives &#8212; although somehow, I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21536</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21536</guid>
		<description>Lets get some perspective here. The figures show that never-married single welfare mums with multiple fathers for their children exist but are actually fairly rare, at least in Australia (whose data I&#039;m familiar with).  And cases as extreme as Ms Matthews are much rarer - which is exactly why they make the newspapers.

Yes, paying more welfare to single mums to have more children will, all else equal, increase the number of kids they have - but the hard evidence (mostly from econometric studies of variations in welfare  payments across US states) is that the effect is tiny - so small it is hard to detect.

The &#039;reasoning&#039; that really annoys means is the one that goes &quot;the underclass are on benefits, therefore benefits cause the underclass&quot;. But even in biblical times they noticed the poor are always with ye.  The causes of this level of disadvantage lie elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets get some perspective here. The figures show that never-married single welfare mums with multiple fathers for their children exist but are actually fairly rare, at least in Australia (whose data I&#8217;m familiar with).  And cases as extreme as Ms Matthews are much rarer &#8211; which is exactly why they make the newspapers.</p>
<p>Yes, paying more welfare to single mums to have more children will, all else equal, increase the number of kids they have &#8211; but the hard evidence (mostly from econometric studies of variations in welfare  payments across US states) is that the effect is tiny &#8211; so small it is hard to detect.</p>
<p>The &#8216;reasoning&#8217; that really annoys means is the one that goes &#8220;the underclass are on benefits, therefore benefits cause the underclass&#8221;. But even in biblical times they noticed the poor are always with ye.  The causes of this level of disadvantage lie elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21316</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21316</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Soylent Green eh Deus?&lt;/i&gt;

Monsters John, monsters from the id... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Soylent Green eh Deus?</i></p>
<p>Monsters John, monsters from the id&#8230; <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2008/12/09/baldricks-book-of-cunning-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-21298</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=978#comment-21298</guid>
		<description>John H - &lt;i&gt;An early childhood environment that mitigates against the maturation of executive functions can in effect be a disability and there is very little if any evidence that interventions in adulthood will address what is a significant cerebral deficit.&lt;/i&gt;

I zaid you coult nat zpeak in zee noorozpeak. You vill be dermindaded! :)

Yeah stuff like reading to your kids &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; they get to school. My first school was exclusively populated by the children of highly educated people (from all over the world). So it gave me Utopian blinkers. The standards of the school were spectacular. It was genes no doubt to a certain extent but it was also upbringing. You can teach a kid an awful lot in the first couple of years.

A friend of mine shacked up (and still is) with a stereotypical single mum. There was a 2 year old there who was bright and inquisitive and asked questions. The answer to all questions was a spanking or sit in front of the TV. 

When I graduated there weren&#039;t any jobs. I felt blue. I went to one of these job agencies run by some welfare technocrat. Five minutes with him and I felt like pond scum. That&#039;s me: degree, privileged background, gifts. Mmm. And he made me feel like shit about myself.

Now exactly how does that help you get a job exactly? I reckon places like Blacktown are full of people who&#039;ve been in the clutches of such as these all their lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John H &#8211; <i>An early childhood environment that mitigates against the maturation of executive functions can in effect be a disability and there is very little if any evidence that interventions in adulthood will address what is a significant cerebral deficit.</i></p>
<p>I zaid you coult nat zpeak in zee noorozpeak. You vill be dermindaded! <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Yeah stuff like reading to your kids <i>before</i> they get to school. My first school was exclusively populated by the children of highly educated people (from all over the world). So it gave me Utopian blinkers. The standards of the school were spectacular. It was genes no doubt to a certain extent but it was also upbringing. You can teach a kid an awful lot in the first couple of years.</p>
<p>A friend of mine shacked up (and still is) with a stereotypical single mum. There was a 2 year old there who was bright and inquisitive and asked questions. The answer to all questions was a spanking or sit in front of the TV. </p>
<p>When I graduated there weren&#8217;t any jobs. I felt blue. I went to one of these job agencies run by some welfare technocrat. Five minutes with him and I felt like pond scum. That&#8217;s me: degree, privileged background, gifts. Mmm. And he made me feel like shit about myself.</p>
<p>Now exactly how does that help you get a job exactly? I reckon places like Blacktown are full of people who&#8217;ve been in the clutches of such as these all their lives.</p>
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