<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Indiscernible Immigration</title>
	<atom:link href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/</link>
	<description>Two lawyers and a larrikin on life, law and liberty.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 12:46:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Legal Eagle</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-34048</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Eagle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-34048</guid>
		<description>Actually, I think some of those who implement an authoritarian regime &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; like it, and that&#039;s part of the problem. Or they think they know what is best for everyone, and if they just force everyone else to see this, then the scales will fall from their eyes...

The people who really don&#039;t like authoritarian regimes are the ones whose freedoms are curtailed and who are not in control (obviously).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I think some of those who implement an authoritarian regime <i>do</i> like it, and that&#8217;s part of the problem. Or they think they know what is best for everyone, and if they just force everyone else to see this, then the scales will fall from their eyes&#8230;</p>
<p>The people who really don&#8217;t like authoritarian regimes are the ones whose freedoms are curtailed and who are not in control (obviously).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-34046</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-34046</guid>
		<description>Well, no... No one actually &lt;i&gt;likes&lt;/i&gt; authoritarianism any more than they &lt;i&gt;like&lt;/i&gt; torture (no &#039;decent&#039; person would) but they need some sort of real or manufactured emergency to provide a publicly acceptable excuse for having to bring it in and support the inevitable &quot;ends justify the means&quot; argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, no&#8230; No one actually <i>likes</i> authoritarianism any more than they <i>like</i> torture (no &#8216;decent&#8217; person would) but they need some sort of real or manufactured emergency to provide a publicly acceptable excuse for having to bring it in and support the inevitable &#8220;ends justify the means&#8221; argument.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-34037</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 09:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-34037</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;authoritarianism occurs completely independently of political affiliation.&lt;/i&gt;
.
One of the most authoritarian people I ever met was a hippie anarchist.
.
&lt;i&gt;but because they feel authoritarian tools are necessary to implement their political, social or financial agenda. &lt;/i&gt;
.
And for &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.abc.net.au/articulate/images/2008/09/11/2001a.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fun&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>authoritarianism occurs completely independently of political affiliation.</i><br />
.<br />
One of the most authoritarian people I ever met was a hippie anarchist.<br />
.<br />
<i>but because they feel authoritarian tools are necessary to implement their political, social or financial agenda. </i><br />
.<br />
And for <a href="http://blogs.abc.net.au/articulate/images/2008/09/11/2001a.jpg" rel="nofollow">fun</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33972</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 16:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33972</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s time to realise that both facism and socialism/communism were both authoritarian movements that were very much of their economic and political times - and as JG points out, often reactions to each other - which we will in fact, never see again.

Conditions may recurr in which government authoritarianism will increase (Klaus, you&#039;ll probably agree this may already be happening with the various anti-terror measures already implemented in the West - Skepticlawyer has a neat argument about the financial punishment of smokers to pay for the wider societal and health costs of their freely-chosen habit) but authoritarianism occurs completely independently of political affiliation.

Legalise neo-nazis today and give David Irving a chat show but we will NOT see another Nazi government arise. We may see governments that share some of their authoritanian attributes - not because they are neo-liberal, libertarian, neoconservative or even green, but because they feel authoritarian tools are necessary to implement their political, social or financial agenda. The only requirement for it to happen is that the wider public is either largely in agreement with their goals or unable to prevent it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s time to realise that both facism and socialism/communism were both authoritarian movements that were very much of their economic and political times &#8211; and as JG points out, often reactions to each other &#8211; which we will in fact, never see again.</p>
<p>Conditions may recurr in which government authoritarianism will increase (Klaus, you&#8217;ll probably agree this may already be happening with the various anti-terror measures already implemented in the West &#8211; Skepticlawyer has a neat argument about the financial punishment of smokers to pay for the wider societal and health costs of their freely-chosen habit) but authoritarianism occurs completely independently of political affiliation.</p>
<p>Legalise neo-nazis today and give David Irving a chat show but we will NOT see another Nazi government arise. We may see governments that share some of their authoritanian attributes &#8211; not because they are neo-liberal, libertarian, neoconservative or even green, but because they feel authoritarian tools are necessary to implement their political, social or financial agenda. The only requirement for it to happen is that the wider public is either largely in agreement with their goals or unable to prevent it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33840</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 07:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33840</guid>
		<description>Actually Adrien, if you look at the relatively small number of fascist irruptions, they are always a response to Socialist imperialism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Adrien, if you look at the relatively small number of fascist irruptions, they are always a response to Socialist imperialism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33772</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 04:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33772</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;so long as we keep the socialists at bay.&lt;/i&gt;
.
Fascism doesn&#039;t rewuire socialism. It&#039;s routed in ancient structures of tribe, love of war and obedience to leaders. It&#039;s a monkey thing.
.
&lt;i&gt;And for the last time, there is no such thibng as “neoliberalism”.&lt;/i&gt;
.
Not anymore. :)
.
But there &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.catallaxyfiles.com/blog/?p=917#comments&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;never was&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>so long as we keep the socialists at bay.</i><br />
.<br />
Fascism doesn&#8217;t rewuire socialism. It&#8217;s routed in ancient structures of tribe, love of war and obedience to leaders. It&#8217;s a monkey thing.<br />
.<br />
<i>And for the last time, there is no such thibng as “neoliberalism”.</i><br />
.<br />
Not anymore. <img src='http://skepticlawyer.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.<br />
But there <a href="http://www.catallaxyfiles.com/blog/?p=917#comments" rel="nofollow">never was</a>?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33759</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 01:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33759</guid>
		<description>There is absolutely no threat of fascism, so long as we keep the socialists at bay. And for the last time, there is no such thibng as &quot;neoliberalism&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is absolutely no threat of fascism, so long as we keep the socialists at bay. And for the last time, there is no such thibng as &#8220;neoliberalism&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33619</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 04:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33619</guid>
		<description>When the world goes FUBAR fascism results. Technocracy + untrammeled human nature = Fascism. It&#039;s Stupid Monkey time, head, club - donk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the world goes FUBAR fascism results. Technocracy + untrammeled human nature = Fascism. It&#8217;s Stupid Monkey time, head, club &#8211; donk.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klaus k</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33572</link>
		<dc:creator>klaus k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 12:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33572</guid>
		<description>I think Posey&#039;s point was that there is the potential for something like fascism sitting right in the centre of the political spectrum, out in the open as it were. For mine, I think the &#039;f&#039; word may be misleading in discussions like this, but vigilance in important.

The only place I&#039;d put a question mark over your remarks, DEM is this: &quot;ample protection for personal liberty&quot;. I don&#039;t know about elsewhere, but there were some fairly extreme changes in Australia recently to limit those protections in certain situations, not all of which have been reversed. What some call the &#039;state of exception&#039; may, at any time, be sufficient to bring out the extremity of the moderates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Posey&#8217;s point was that there is the potential for something like fascism sitting right in the centre of the political spectrum, out in the open as it were. For mine, I think the &#8216;f&#8217; word may be misleading in discussions like this, but vigilance in important.</p>
<p>The only place I&#8217;d put a question mark over your remarks, DEM is this: &#8220;ample protection for personal liberty&#8221;. I don&#8217;t know about elsewhere, but there were some fairly extreme changes in Australia recently to limit those protections in certain situations, not all of which have been reversed. What some call the &#8216;state of exception&#8217; may, at any time, be sufficient to bring out the extremity of the moderates.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DeusExMacintosh</title>
		<link>http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/04/26/indiscernible-immigration/comment-page-2/#comment-33565</link>
		<dc:creator>DeusExMacintosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 09:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticlawyer.com.au/?p=2005#comment-33565</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Fascism isn’t over. It’s waiting in the wings. It is and will be an extension of neoliberalism or its equivalent.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;ve always felt that the panic over the &#039;far-right&#039; is overstated by the left. It&#039;s what ended a brief fling I had with the Greens in the UK (their national policies were sensible but on the ground they turned out to be all ex-socialist alliance types). 

To my mind there will ALWAYS be activity at both extremes of the political spectrum (sorry, I&#039;ve always thought the right-wing-bad, left-wing-good is a crock) but like any population distribution, numbers at the extremes tend to be very small and their influence proportional. 

On the rare occasions they manage to pinpoint a grass-roots issue that might boost their following, their political teeth are inevitably pulled by mainstream parties eventually appropriating their policy (as Howard&#039;s Liberals did with One Nation). 

Our society has ample protection for personal liberty already entrenched in law so it would require an electoral tsunami to sweep an extremist party into office with enough power to change this (which is why I don&#039;t expect that &quot;black flag of Islam&quot; to be flying over Downing Street anytime soon). Historically this only tends to happen when mainstream politics has been fatally compromised by gross economic incompetence or institutionalised corruption.

Actively banning parties at the extreme, as is still done in Germany for example, undermines any claim to democratic credentials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Fascism isn’t over. It’s waiting in the wings. It is and will be an extension of neoliberalism or its equivalent.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve always felt that the panic over the &#8216;far-right&#8217; is overstated by the left. It&#8217;s what ended a brief fling I had with the Greens in the UK (their national policies were sensible but on the ground they turned out to be all ex-socialist alliance types). </p>
<p>To my mind there will ALWAYS be activity at both extremes of the political spectrum (sorry, I&#8217;ve always thought the right-wing-bad, left-wing-good is a crock) but like any population distribution, numbers at the extremes tend to be very small and their influence proportional. </p>
<p>On the rare occasions they manage to pinpoint a grass-roots issue that might boost their following, their political teeth are inevitably pulled by mainstream parties eventually appropriating their policy (as Howard&#8217;s Liberals did with One Nation). </p>
<p>Our society has ample protection for personal liberty already entrenched in law so it would require an electoral tsunami to sweep an extremist party into office with enough power to change this (which is why I don&#8217;t expect that &#8220;black flag of Islam&#8221; to be flying over Downing Street anytime soon). Historically this only tends to happen when mainstream politics has been fatally compromised by gross economic incompetence or institutionalised corruption.</p>
<p>Actively banning parties at the extreme, as is still done in Germany for example, undermines any claim to democratic credentials.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
