I’m a pragmatist, not an idealist. That’s one of the things that has come to me through blogging. I will compromise to achieve a desired result.

Anyway, unpleasant and rude ad hominem attacks are not what we want on this site. Flower is in moderation. The kind of debate he/she was trying to provoke goes precisely nowhere.

=) Freudian slip?!

Humane…

I can’t believe I had the grace to retract my own, entirely reasonable but nonetheless impolite, bit of ad hominim. I wasn’t sooking at all. I came to continue the debate, noted that you’d avoided everything I said, I moved on to another site.

Linking me in with ‘this site’ is an extraordinary narcissistic piece of exceptionalism. I’m one of the more left wing visitors here, others above could affirm that. In my particular response I acknowledged the potential value in meat eaters being reasonable and considering lowering their consumption and showing a preference for more human sources.

But I suppose if you want to feel special it’s easy to just write everyone else off as a single voice, a single narrative against which you can construct your own pillar of wisdom.

Feel special. You are. You can ignore those unnatural Kalahari bushmen and they, not being special, can’t even get on the internet to explain to you why they might disagree.

And don’t shy away from using generalisations and personal ridicule to make a point!

In fact, some of the most relaxed vegos or vegans I know have been that way for years, or indeed, all their lives – so they’re comfortable with who they are and accepting of the choices of others are too. Cheers to them!

Yeah, I’ll go for the eat well and die happy option myself I think.

One amusing thing I read recently referred to the famous study that showed that rats fed on half rations lived longer: oh yes, they lived longer, but not reported was that they were bad tempered and hard to handle, unlike the well fed ones. The semi-starving rats liked to bite!

Your arguments are dreary and unconvincing. Most farmed animals live the lives of kings. A farmed sheep, such as those across the road from my acreage, never have to fear hunger or thirst, they are treated for worms and diseases and even though in the end they are slaughtered for food they probably still live longer and better lives than their wild ancestors.

Life in nature is nasty, brutish and short. Hunger, thirst, the possibility of being viciously ripped to shreds by a predator, disease and infestation by parasites ensure many, possibly even most, wild animals lead miserable lives.

Having said that, some industrial farming practices, such the battery hen system, are undoubtedly cruel. But frankly my dear I don’t give a shit. Mother Nature is a callous bitch and I cheerfully accept my place her pecking order

You really are a pretentious, moralizing, sermonizing git and you would not convince anyone with your attitude, in fact you would turn people further away.

First it was the big bad corporations and then we find we’re not worthy of you.

Seriously, get lost with your attitude. We’ll eat what we want to eat and that’s just the way it is, you grandstanding, know-nothing git.

“Flower @ 97, Armagny did try to address your points and to point out where there are clear arguments to the contrary.”

With respect Legal Eagle – that point was raised by Bling bling , not me: “ Are we or are we not, by natural selection, carnivores? Have I missed something.”

The issue I have raised is animal abuse which, throughout a hundred posts, has not been acknowledged but we do have a few grim reapers here who prefer to cherry pick!

Now we have the moderator throwing in the red herring of cockroaches. If a cockroach invades my house, or threatens my health, I step on it – instant death, which is a far more humane than an Australian rouseabout incarcerating a bellowing cow in a steel crush and hacking off its ovaries.

Behold – in post 99, you finally alluded to animal abuse. I would advise those (including yourself) who condescend to criticize my “argumentative technique” that I am not here to make an impression but to provide information so perhaps you all need to take your hand off it.

And what a revelation Legal Eagle that you have seen all the footage before. So what are you doing about it while you raise a thread to criticize those who have become vegetarians (which I am not) for the very reasons I have raised?

Perhaps you could do your bit for the environment and the hapless food animals by becoming a member of the Barristers’ Animal Welfare Panel, a Victorian Bar committee which, I believe, comprises of 90 Victorian barristers including 25 silks.

You might even manage to make a buck or two representing a few of the animal abusers.

What happens if you get a cockroach infestation in your house? Do you just let the cockroaches roam free? I’m willing to bet that you don’t. If you do, I’d rather not eat at your place.

For the record, personally, I support the idea that farming methods should be as humane as possible. And I’d be prepared to cut down on meat – in fact, my husband and I did so a few years ago. We generally buy free range stuff too.

But the thing is that it’s not even worth discussing the issue a person who is as black and white as you are. I’m prepared to concede that we should farm animals responsibly and take care of the environment when doing so. You’re not prepared to concede a thing. As far as you’re concerned, it’s bad, there are no positives about my point of view, and until unless a person believes exactly as you do, they are wrong and bad.

It doesn’t matter how many guilt-tripping books and videos and photos you point me to. I’ve read or seen it all before, believe me. As I said in my post, I have thought about these issues. But I just happened to have responded differently to these things to you. You can say that I’m wrong and cruel and selfish all you like. As far as I’m concerned, we’re all cruel and selfish in some way or another in the way we interact with our natural environment and the animal world (think about what you’d do about those cockroaches above). You’ve chosen to minimise your impact in a particular way, others chose differently.

As a matter of argumentative technique, I don’t find the “you’re wrong, cruel and selfish” argument to be a particularly effective one. (Really I think that’s about making yourself feel good about your choice, not persuading me). If you want to persuade people, you do far better if you engage with them and come to a compromise, rather than just say that they are wrong over and over and over.