Here we go, here we go, here we go

By skepticlawyer

Yes, it’s on again, the annual UK BNP blow-up. This time it’s the BBC, and not the Oxford Union. Memo to the ‘anti-fascist league’ or whatever you call yourselves these days:

1. Preventing these people from speaking will not make them go away.

2. Behaving badly while the loonies behave politely will make the greater British public sympathize with the loonies, not you.

3. As Australia learnt — bitterly, over several years, with Pauline Hanson — the only way to manage these people is through the parliament, not on the streets.

And the Beeb is right, this time:

The BBC has defended the invitation to the leader of the anti-immigration party to appear on the programme [Question Time, the BBC’s flagship politics programme], saying it had a duty to be impartial.

During the show the panel covered topics including whether it was fair for the BNP to “hijack” images of Winston Churchill, whether immigration policy had fuelled the BNP’s popularity and whether Mr Griffin’s appearance was an early Christmas present for the party.


  1. Posted October 23, 2009 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    People LIKE to protest.

    “Communist? I’m not a communist! I just joined the protest to get laid.”

    ~~ Zero Mostel, The Front

  2. Posted October 23, 2009 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Anyone unhappy with a “rise” of the BNP ought to have a think about why they are getting such traction with Blue Collar indigenous, who are flocking to them.

    Blame the Two main parties.

  3. Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    I disagree vehemently. Jack Straw – the ‘great anti-fascist’ and parliamentarian of the type you praise to defeat the fascists – has actually encouraged anti-Muslim racism that Griffin promulgates. As for parliamentarianism, Hitler was constitutionally elected (in part becuase of the historically criminal Stalinist social fascist tactic). And more people will now be attacked in the streets. In 1984 Le Pen did much the same thing in France -mainstreaming fascism. Membership doubled and attacks on immigrants increased. Cable Street in 1936 comes to mind too. The way to defeat the fascists is to stop them on the streets and through our unions.

  4. Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    And the best way to deal with the ideas of the BNP is openly – let them say what they want. It doesn’t take long with the loopiness to be revealed.

  5. Posted October 23, 2009 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps we can send Virginia to visit to train aunty beeb interviewers wrist and face loosening exercises for off-camera moments. Those BNP folk (and Hanson) make Barnaby sound like Whitlam.

  6. Posted October 23, 2009 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Tony, I strongly suspect there’s a fair bit of that going on…

    To be sure, the BNP are doing the conventional ‘How to Succeed in British Politics without Really Trying’ thing, selecting a nicely spoken Oxbridge graduate to be their leader (Griffin). Some people have been alarmed by this development, but I see it as a positive. It won’t take long for them to come to resemble all the other British political parties, although if the headkickers and loonies still exist (and they will do), they’ll probably found another party full of headkickers and loonies…

  7. jc
    Posted October 23, 2009 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m not talking about the BNP, but is an anti-immigration policy thought of as the worst thing since the concentration camps?

    It’s not fascist nor is it racist to be anti-mass immigration.

  8. Posted October 24, 2009 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Besides which, despite assurances that the program wasn’t going to be the “Nick Griffin show” pretty much the whole thing was spent keeping him on his toes. His performance was the shakiest I’ve ever seen him and his defence since was to complain that a London audience was unrepresentative of Britain because it has been effectively “ethnically cleansed” of white people. Which has pretty much undermined any latent support he might have had with people possessing over 80 points of IQ.

    You have to feel quite sorry for the white working class in this country. The only parties who have any real interest in their concerns are the loony lefties of the Socialist Workers Party or the raging right of the BNP – both of which are total barm cakes. The “mainstream” parties only cater to the middle-class, middle-england mortgagee and above.

    Griffin used to be in the National Front. Quel horreur! And Peter Mandelson started off in the Communist Party – would you suggest that accurately reflects his current political convictions (or lack thereof)?

    Discrimination on the basis of racism is illegal. Racist opinions are not, which is why the BNP is NOT a proscribed organisation. While they’re legal, they have a legitimate voice. The BBC was right and in this instance, proved the protestors wrong.

  9. Posted October 24, 2009 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    From what I saw on the tellie the “anti-fascist” demonstrators behaved like fascists and probably increased support for the BNP.

    The cops should have hit the protesters with truncheons, rubber bullets and tear gas as they were a threat to the right to free speech and peaceful assembly, rights that everyone should enjoy no matter how vile we think they are.

  10. Caz
    Posted October 24, 2009 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Have to agree with Deus.

    The fact that the conversation is even being played out is a concern. Have we learned nothing?

    More than happy for people to protest, of course, but I’d be more comfortable if they protested against the ideas, rather than protesting that the ideas should be hidden from view, lest we all catch something.

    It’s not “for our own good” that we not come to see and understand what our fellow human think or how they behave.

    I’s impossible for governments to legislate thoughts and behaviors, yet, more stridently than in the past, the public demand that govt’s give it their best shot.

  11. jc
    Posted October 25, 2009 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    I’m not sure how the fact the larger proportion of the audience on the BBC were non-white and aggressively pro-immigration would play out with the wider audience.

    I really don’t know anything about Griffin and I’m not going to simply revile him because everyone else is. However if any of the comments about him are true then of course he’s a complete creep.

    However his past doesn’t seem to matter any more and he knows it.

    He did land a few hard blows.

    To argue there is no such thing as indigenous Britains as some of the audience and his detractors did is about the biggest bullshit of the program. Of course there are.

    I think Griffin’s comment that no one seems to have an issue calling American Indians and Australian aborigines indigenous while Brits aren’t shows the horror of where political correctness can take you. Sheer and absolute nonsense.

    To argue that the government has control of immigration when it clearly isn’t in control is offensive.

    the big parties better get their act together on this or there’s going to be a blow up over there.

  12. Posted October 25, 2009 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    On British aboriginality: even the Celts were relative latecomers to europe… The Basque-Finno-Urgic enclaves in Europe, like the Tamil remnants of Dravidian culture in India, have the most ancient supportable claims. All anglo-saxon-jute-celt supporters of the BNP line should exile themselves far to the east near the Caucasus.

  13. jc
    Posted October 25, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink


    Your example applies to almost every single indig group.
    You’re making the same mistake those immigrants made in attacking Griffin’s claim of an indig culture in the UK.

  14. Posted October 25, 2009 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    Settle down, Dave. No doubt even Oz aborigines arrived here in dribs and drabs and are in reality a melting pot of newcomers and latecomers. And no doubt many of the Aborigine nations circa 1770 were built on the bones of previous nations.

  15. Posted October 25, 2009 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Yes, i think any claim to “aboriginality” in areas inhabited by earlier forms of homo is twaddle, and imposes arbitrary dates -leaving perhaps tierra-del-fuegans and tasmanians as aboriginal homos in the americas and oz (unless bigfeet or yowie bones are discovered and put in genus homo). I’m for one planet, with citizenship for all anthropoids- and refugee status for any little green folk from Mars having some proof of persecution and ability to deal with our atmosphere. Nation states this century make as much sense to me as city states in the 18th.

  16. Posted October 25, 2009 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Griffin did make Jack Straw look like a complete noodle, which can reasonably be considered a community service. The woman from the Tory party came across well, perhaps because she’d thought out her answers before hand.

  17. jc
    Posted October 25, 2009 at 6:13 pm | Permalink


    I watched the performance on You Tube. It appears to me every single party has miscued in the way they’re treating the BNP. They’ve all fired their best guns at him/them and they seemed like they ran out of ammunition.

    Does it really hurt Griffin that the establishment parties and the BBC thinks he’s a nazi and is two grades below vermin?

    He doesn’t give a toss, as that’s all old hat.

    He came across actually saying what could be considered to be reasonable things.

    Mass immigration is bad? Tick

    Brits are losing their country to foreigners? Tick.

    The government doesn’t care about indig. Brits and cares more about foreigners? Tick.

    Jack straw is a dickhead and sermonizing twit? Check

    And lots lots more.

    Don’t get me wrong, Griffin is a creep but he knows how to play the Mr. Innocent-I’m-nice routine down to the nervous laugh.

    Bonnie, the black American woman seemed to be able to get the better of him because she was actually nice toward him but very cutting at the same time. However she then sort of lost the plot by just babbling incoherent crap.

    The other parties seemed bitter and twisted towards Griffin and he didn’t seem to care one iota, as his views seemed to resonate more.

  18. Posted October 27, 2009 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    There is a reason the BNP is gettings lotsa votes ‘n’ Euro Seats ‘n’ stuff.

    Other parties sneering ‘n’ saying what dickheads their supporters are isn’t going to stop the haemorrhage of votes to the BNP.

    UK is a democracy, if people wish to vote for the BNP then it is their right to do so.

    Underlying the squeal from the Major Parties is that they are losing previously mainstream voters to the BNP. The Majors are realising that their current direction is abhorrent to (some) voters, and will either have to adjust their policies, or continue to lose votes.

    This is a most unpleasant thought to those (in the major parties) who believed they can do as they wish.

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